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Public & Private School Issues Merged Thread (2009)

Started by football_writer, August 01, 2006, 02:59:46 pm

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True/False  Public Students must attend the HS in their district?

True
3 (8.1%)
False
34 (91.9%)

Total Members Voted: 34

football_writer

The AAA was formed originally to serve as a governing body for public schools in the state of Arkansas.  In Mississippi, for private schools they have the MPSA to do this for private schools.

Solution: Arkansas private schools need to form the APSA.  Problem solved...conflict over.  Let's go back to church and dump the feud.

kijex13

Quote from: football_writer on August 01, 2006, 02:59:46 pm
The AAA was formed originally to serve as a governing body for public schools in the state of Arkansas.  In Mississippi, for private schools they have the MPSA to do this for private schools.

Solution: Arkansas private schools need to form the APSA.  Problem solved...conflict over.  Let's go back to church and dump the feud.

You are correct that the MPSA is a private school league in Mississippi, but there are still private schools in Mississippi that are in with the public schools.  Arkansas already has this, as there are private schools that play in the public school division, and there are some private schools that play in the MPSA with only private schools.

Mike Bonds

I still think that the best solution is to have a graduated multiplier.  I just don't think that a "one size fits all" solution adequately addresses the problem.  I think that PA, Shiloh, and CAC may have some advantages that require a heightened mulitplier.  I don't think that Union Christian, Lutheran, or AB share those advantages.  We need a multiplier that evens things for established programs, but doesn't hinder new programs from starting. 

football_writer

I know...I live in a county with two such schools.  Those two schools could care less what takes place with the AAA.  It doesn't affect them because there is not the private vs public school debate.  Those private schools in Mississippi that are in with public schools chose to be there.  They had that choice.  Create the APSA and schools such as CAC, PA, Arkansas Baptist, etc will also have the alternate choice to leave the AAA if they so choose.  Would it cause the public schools stress?  Yes...the stress in finding the right amount of party favors and celebration supplies because they will no longer have to deal with it again.

Mike Bonds

Quote from: football_writer on August 01, 2006, 04:22:35 pm
I know...I live in a county with two such schools.  Those two schools could care less what takes place with the AAA.  It doesn't affect them because there is not the private vs public school debate.  Those private schools in Mississippi that are in with public schools chose to be there.  They had that choice.  Create the APSA and schools such as CAC, PA, Arkansas Baptist, etc will also have the alternate choice to leave the AAA if they so choose.  Would it cause the public schools stress?  Yes...the stress in finding the right amount of party favors and celebration supplies because they will no longer have to deal with it again.

But, I think that potentially sets the stage for unlimited private school athletic recruiting, moving public school sports into a second tier in some areas, and I don't think that's in the public interest. 

We can put a man on the moon, but we can't figure out a fair multiplier system in Arkansas?  I don't believe it.  Also, I don't know how many schools are in the MPSA, but I remember there being many more private schools there than in Arkansas (back in the early 90's, when I lived in Mississippi).  I don't know if you'd have enough schools in Arkansas to properly populate an APSA.

football_writer

Quote from: Mike Bonds on August 01, 2006, 04:26:05 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 01, 2006, 04:22:35 pm
I know...I live in a county with two such schools.  Those two schools could care less what takes place with the AAA.  It doesn't affect them because there is not the private vs public school debate.  Those private schools in Mississippi that are in with public schools chose to be there.  They had that choice.  Create the APSA and schools such as CAC, PA, Arkansas Baptist, etc will also have the alternate choice to leave the AAA if they so choose.  Would it cause the public schools stress?  Yes...the stress in finding the right amount of party favors and celebration supplies because they will no longer have to deal with it again.

But, I think that potentially sets the stage for unlimited private school athletic recruiting, moving public school sports into a second tier in some areas, and I don't think that's in the public interest. 

We can put a man on the moon, but we can't figure out a fair multiplier system in Arkansas?  I don't believe it.  Also, I don't know how many schools are in the MPSA, but I remember there being many more private schools there than in Arkansas (back in the early 90's, when I lived in Mississippi).  I don't know if you'd have enough schools in Arkansas to properly populate an APSA.

You may be right on the number of schools, Mike.  But it IS one solution to eventually stop the fighting, crying and "female dogging" that has been going on about this dog gone multiplier issue.

Guetz

We can put a man on the moon, we can create a calculation system (rather easily) that evaluates EVERY school's activity performance and classifies them at an appropriate level of competition.

SCRAP THE MULTIPLIER SYSTEM.

INSTITUTE A PERFORMANCE BASED SYSTEM!

T-Wacker

Quote from: kijex on August 01, 2006, 04:05:35 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 01, 2006, 02:59:46 pm
The AAA was formed originally to serve as a governing body for public schools in the state of Arkansas.  In Mississippi, for private schools they have the MPSA to do this for private schools.

Solution: Arkansas private schools need to form the APSA.  Problem solved...conflict over.  Let's go back to church and dump the feud.

You are correct that the MPSA is a private school league in Mississippi, but there are still private schools in Mississippi that are in with the public schools.  Arkansas already has this, as there are private schools that play in the public school division, and there are some private schools that play in the MPSA with only private schools.

Are there not small private schools in the state that don't belong to the AAA? Seems like I remember a friend that used to officiate games where very small private, deeply religious, schools had their own league. that may be what Mississippi has.

football_writer

New solution.  Do away completely with the Multiplier.  Make it a 1:1 ratio.  In doing so, a lot of the private schools would actually end up in the same classification.  PA, AB, CAC, HA, and Shiloh Christian would actually hover around the same level, constituting the creation of a private school only conference in that designated classification.  The logistic end would suck but no more than Texarkana (who for conference games, averages 929 miles per year), Helena-West Helena (906 miles per year) or Mountain Home (a whopping 1,126 miles per year).  PA, CAC, AB, and HA would bring the mileage average for that conference down, no matter how many hundreds of miles Shiloh has to travel for conference.  Oops, but then Gary Holt would complain about how the AAA is messsing with private school parents and the cost of gasoline.

Guetz

Football_Writer:

Please elaborate on a 1:1 ratio classification scheme.

kijex13

Quote from: football_writer on August 02, 2006, 05:53:46 pm
New solution.  Do away completely with the Multiplier.  Make it a 1:1 ratio.  In doing so, a lot of the private schools would actually end up in the same classification.  PA, AB, CAC, HA, and Shiloh Christian would actually hover around the same level, constituting the creation of a private school only conference in that designated classification. 

I could be misunderstanding your solution, but if you do away with the multiplier those five schools wouldn't be in the same classification.  If we did away with the current multiplier, CAC and PA would be in 4A along with LR Christian.  I believe Shiloh and Arkansas Baptist would both be in 3A, and Harding would drop to 2A.

Miner

Quote from: kijex on August 02, 2006, 06:58:37 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 02, 2006, 05:53:46 pm
New solution.  Do away completely with the Multiplier.  Make it a 1:1 ratio.  In doing so, a lot of the private schools would actually end up in the same classification.  PA, AB, CAC, HA, and Shiloh Christian would actually hover around the same level, constituting the creation of a private school only conference in that designated classification. 

I could be misunderstanding your solution, but if you do away with the multiplier those five schools wouldn't be in the same classification.  If we did away with the current multiplier, CAC and PA would be in 4A along with LR Christian.  I believe Shiloh and Arkansas Baptist would both be in 3A, and Harding would drop to 2A.

That sounds fair to me.

FF Secretary of Defense Flap_Jack48

QuoteIf we did away with the current multiplier, CAC and PA would be in 4A along with LR Christian.  I believe Shiloh and Arkansas Baptist would both be in 3A, and Harding would drop to 2A.

I don't know if it gets any better than that.  I wish PA was still in the 4A, they helped strengthen our classification.  Shiloh and Arkansas Baptist are smaller schools, so I agree that they should be in the 3A, and I doubt either of them would have problems with that.  Harding Academy could compete at the 3A level, no doubt in my mind, but if they belong in the 2A, I doubt they'd mind that either.  I have no quams what-so-ever with private schools, and in all honesty, I wish they just played in the class where they belonged.  If the 4A became the new home to all the private schools, then so be it--they're a school, just like any other school.  They have students, teachers, coaches, players and fans--I still don't know what all the fuss is about.  If you can beat them--don't whine about it--practice harder and beat them the following season.  Warren is 2-2 against PA, 0-1 against CAC and 0-1 against Shiloh (all in football), but you don't hear the Jack fans crying for the multiplier.  We know that we're all on a level playing field, and we want another shot at CAC and Shiloh--you know, to even things up a bit.

--Kyle

kijex13

Quote from: Flap_Jack48 on August 02, 2006, 09:50:36 pm
QuoteIf we did away with the current multiplier, CAC and PA would be in 4A along with LR Christian.  I believe Shiloh and Arkansas Baptist would both be in 3A, and Harding would drop to 2A.

I don't know if it gets any better than that.  I wish PA was still in the 4A, they helped strengthen our classification.  Shiloh and Arkansas Baptist are smaller schools, so I agree that they should be in the 3A, and I doubt either of them would have problems with that.  Harding Academy could compete at the 3A level, no doubt in my mind, but if they belong in the 2A, I doubt they'd mind that either.  I have no quams what-so-ever with private schools, and in all honesty, I wish they just played in the class where they belonged.  If the 4A became the new home to all the private schools, then so be it--they're a school, just like any other school.  They have students, teachers, coaches, players and fans--I still don't know what all the fuss is about.  If you can beat them--don't whine about it--practice harder and beat them the following season.  Warren is 2-2 against PA, 0-1 against CAC and 0-1 against Shiloh (all in football), but you don't hear the Jack fans crying for the multiplier.  We know that we're all on a level playing field, and we want another shot at CAC and Shiloh--you know, to even things up a bit.

--Kyle

Great post.  It's always good to hear from a public school supporter that isn't wanting to kick all the private schools out.

I wouldn't mind CAC playing Warren again either, because that would mean we've made it deep into the playoffs.  I wouldn't mind if the rematch didn't happen until the finals though.  The last time we played it was a fun game to watch with a ton of offense for both teams.  I don't think there would be quite as many points put up this year.

FF Secretary of Defense Flap_Jack48

I'll second that--the defenses for the two teams are a bit better this season--although, Gates ran through our defense like a hot knife through butter the last time we played.  Thank the Lord he has gradauted--unless you're a Mustang fan  ;)  I remember that game, it was a good one, for a while--ya'll kinda stole the show in the 2nd half though.  It was a sad night in Lumberjack land, I watched some of my best friends play their final high school football game that night--dang you CAC!  Haha.

I just honestly don't see the point in punishing private schools, it doesn't make sense.  Everyone accuses ya'll of recruiting, but there's honestly no proof of it.  Warren get's move-ins like crazy over the summer, simply because kids WANT to play for a winning program--much like a kid living in Little Rock, with some athletic ability, if they had the funds and could afford it, they'd probably choose to play for a successful private school team--I know I would.  Don't punish a school simply because you can't beat them--that's just lazy to be honest.  If you really wanted to get revenge over a school, don't kick it out of your classification--that's just admitting that you don't think you can beat them.  Do what I said in my previous post, work harder and beat them the next time ya'll meet up.  Warren isn't scared of a private school, they're just like a public school.  They wear helments, shoulder pads, and they play on a 100 yard field like the rest of us. 

This multiplier thing just makes me sick, seriously.  This season is hinging on the vote of one judge, and if she votes for Holt, this season could go into a tail-spin for a few weeks, and that's not what anyone wants.  I wish the AAA would just allow the private schools to play in the conferences/classifications where they belong.  Simple.....as.....that.

--Kyle

AirWarren

I know I jump on private schools all the time, but I have to agree with flappy on this one (Feel Privileged Flap Jerk...HAHA). People need to quit whining about the whole thing about dropping or getting rid of the private schools. Granted I don't agree with certain speculations of how things are done in the private school realm, but the added competition to a conference does nothing but increase the will and desire for another team to beat a top notch private school squad. Not to mention increasing the overall toughness of a conference level as a whole. IMO, Shiloh should be back in our conference rather than dropping and PA should stay where they are because I believe they will be able to compete just fine. If you are gonna screw one private school, by gosh make it tough on all of them. Don't give one a break and make it hard as all get out for another. This whole thing is ridiculous and it is happening in a time that could completely make this season a disaster. If something is going to be done, please wait till next year. It would make more sense. Allow things to play out this season and worry with all this crap next season. Let's play ball.

BTW, this post doesn't justify or support that I am a private school supporter, but people in Lumberjack land want to play the best teams whether private or public school. Obviously the private schools are known to be talented teams, so usually our motto here is..."Bring em on son". In order to be known as the best, we want to beat the best, Private or Public, doesn't really matter. So both sides..Private school haters and Private school lovers...lets shut up and let the season pan out.

Guetz

There shouldn't be a multiplier but enrollment can't be the determining factor either.  The whole idea of classifications is to have schools play other schools at a similar level of competition and resource.  If a school is consistently playing at a level higher than their competition or resource, they should be able to move up a level.  If a school is consistently failing to compete at their current level, drop them back a level.

Use a performance measure to determine classification.

mudturtle

August 03, 2006, 06:45:49 am #17 Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 07:00:20 am by mudturtle
I saw in the DemGaz this morning that there are 19 bids for charter schools.

No boundaries, exemptions from rules, involved parents, PLUS NO TUITION!!!
And get this, one in Bentonville is named  Aspiring Athlete Academy (AAA).  This is not a joke!!

Wonder what the multiplier for this will be: 3.5?

mudturtle

I also read the 4A rankings - AB, UC, and Subiaco are all picked LAST in their conferences.  Only CAC is picked to be anything other than a cellar dweller.

It seems so obvious, the same multiplier for every private school will never create the desired effect.

neafbfan

It may seem unfair, but at this point nothing seems fair: Muiltiplier vs. No Multiplier; Size vs resources, whatever those may be;Performance based vs Non-performance based.

I have a friend in Memphis who's son attends a private school and began last year only after he witnessed his daughter graduating from publics and decided the private area would be better education wise, not from the stand ponit of "quality", but from the stand point of student/teacher ratio. Bottom line. It had nothing to do with elitism or poor quality public education,but coming from a small school (AA) himself in Arkansas, he felt it was better for his son to be in a smaller atmosphere than larger atmosphere,whereas they left their daughter in that realm who performed quite well. She landed a scholarship at a private college in Nashville. Private or public is a parents choice. It wouldn't be my choice, but I don't think we should start a civil war over this issue.

Now then, a  possible solution: AAA should place private schools in a classification where athletic pariticpation rates are similar to their own. If your athletic participation rate,cheerleaders included, is 20% or 50%,you will be placed in a conference with similar rates,since apparently that's where your emphasis is and let the budget fall where it may.The school can then apply for lower/higher classification provided that conference approves with AAA final approval.

Finally since these are student-athletes, maybe the school's median ACT scores and college remedian rates could be applied as factors as well,thus incorporating the whole student-athlete experience and not solely on athletics and pseudo-phenomenons such as a "multiplier".

Conclusion: 1) Schools' athletic pariticpation rates 2) School's median ACT score 3) School's college remediation rates to determine classification and conferences. Schools would then be allowed to petition to another conference,travel,rivals,etc.., provided that conference being petitioned to accepts the petition and AAA's final approval.

How more fair,with the definition of fair being reasonable and consistent or consistently reasonable if you will, could you get?

BTW, my friends son sport of choice - futbol or soccer if you will. ;)

COWTOY

But a real problem with participation rate is school size.  There is NO WAY a school with 2000 students can have a participation rate of 50%.  There aren't that many teams or coaches.  You'd have to start ultimate frisbee teams and count frisbee golf as a varsity sport.

A school with 200 students is going to have a high participation rate.  If you have softball baseball and soccer  that's 30 to 40 already just to field teams for for the most common spring sports.  Of course football takes at least 20 (there will be some overlap) and you need cheerleaders, and maybe POM.  Volleyball is played at most schools.  A lot of schools offer tennis and golf.  That's a few more.

When the AD comes out and says, "We are going to have to cut soccer or baseball unless we get 5 or 6 more players,"  the students that show up and the gym for the first time ARE NOT D1 candidates.  In fact they are often only there as a favor, to give their friends enough people to field team, not because they really want to play.

That sense of community is one of the things that draws many people to private schools.  The chance to participate is a draw too, but the extra participation moves bench warmers to the field and spectators to the bench, it does (NOT - sorry, typo) increase the quality of the talent by 1.75


HA_Fan

Quote from: COWTOY on August 03, 2006, 09:29:48 am
...the extra participation moves bench warmers to the field and spectators to the bench, it does increase the quality of the talent by 1.75

How on earth does moving bench warmers to the field increase the quality of the talent by 1.75?

Sensitive

Quote from: HA_Fan™ on August 03, 2006, 10:34:56 am
Quote from: COWTOY on August 03, 2006, 09:29:48 am
...the extra participation moves bench warmers to the field and spectators to the bench, it does increase the quality of the talent by 1.75

How on earth does moving bench warmers to the field increase the quality of the talent by 1.75?

Judging from the rest of his post, I believe he meant to say it does NOT increase the quality of the talent.

HA_Fan

Quote from: No Longer Sensitive on August 03, 2006, 10:39:36 am
Judging from the rest of his post, I believe he meant to say it does NOT increase the quality of the talent.

I was guessing that too, but you never know on these boards.

546post

If no multiplier was in effect...and Shiloh and Ark. Baptist were in the same conference....I somehow think Ark. Baptist would still feel they got screwed after the thumping they took from a team like Shiloh...They just can not compete with teams on the level of Shiloh...or Rison...or Junction City....True they won't have a prayer with the Multiplier but still not one without it...

kijex13

Quote from: 546post on August 03, 2006, 12:13:47 pm
If no multiplier was in effect...and Shiloh and Ark. Baptist were in the same conference....I somehow think Ark. Baptist would still feel they got screwed after the thumping they took from a team like Shiloh...They just can not compete with teams on the level of Shiloh...or Rison...or Junction City....True they won't have a prayer with the Multiplier but still not one without it...

This case is brought by Gary Holt, not Arkansas Baptist.  The case he makes isn't that Arkansas Baptist won't be able to compete.  I will say that if they moved down a class, there would still be some teams that would "thump" them, but there would be fewer that would.  But as I said, that isn't his case.

EagleDad

Quote from: 546post on August 03, 2006, 12:13:47 pm
If no multiplier was in effect...and Shiloh and Ark. Baptist were in the same conference....I somehow think Ark. Baptist would still feel they got screwed after the thumping they took from a team like Shiloh...They just can not compete with teams on the level of Shiloh...or Rison...or Junction City....True they won't have a prayer with the Multiplier but still not one without it...


AB had no problem with the old multiplier. They would not have a problem playing powerhouses like Rison & Shiloh Christian if that is where their enrollment put them.  While not at the same level as Rison, etc,.. they have competed against some great FB programs for a long time and never complained when beaten. With only 3 trips to the play-offs in 25 years, they know they are not primarily a FB School, even though they are always working to get a good team.

They may not compete with Shiloh, Rison and the likes but the won't complain about competing in the appropriate classification.

The people at AB are not crybabies, it is Gary Holt (who's son happens to attend AB) trying to address what is an injustice by the AAA. Too bad his lawsuit didn't address the schools getting hosed with extensive travel on the conference reorganizations. Kids are STUDENTs first and atheletes second.  

As we all know, Holt is a Lawyer and that is the way he handles problems. Of course, the AAA website used to ask you to contact them. After the 1.75 ruling, they never responded to my inquiries and phone calls asking to discuss the changes. The AAA brought this on themselves when they buried their heads in the sand.




transplant

August 03, 2006, 01:11:15 pm #27 Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 01:55:36 pm by transplant
Quote from: Guetz on August 03, 2006, 04:32:27 am
There shouldn't be a multiplier but enrollment can't be the determining factor either.  The whole idea of classifications is to have schools play other schools at a similar level of competition and resource.  If a school is consistently playing at a level higher than their competition or resource, they should be able to move up a level.  If a school is consistently failing to compete at their current level, drop them back a level.

Use a performance measure to determine classification.

Reward mediocrity!!

Punish excellence!!

Guetz is your real last name Kennedy or is it Biden?


HA_Fan

Quote from: transplant on August 03, 2006, 01:11:15 pm
Punish excellence!!

That's where the AAA set the bar last August.  Guetz is only proposing a different method.

mudturtle

Face it, we are going to have so many Conferences that winning a championship will not be quite as special.  If we have to, the AAA can 5 or six more conferences so everyone will have a chance.


Yukon Cornelius

Quote from: mudturtle on August 03, 2006, 02:06:46 pm
Face it, we are going to have so many Conferences that winning a championship will not be quite as special.  If we have to, the AAA can 5 or six more conferences so everyone will have a chance.



Not true.  You are certainly exaggerating to plead your case.

HA_Fan

Quote from: Mr. Gator on August 03, 2006, 04:23:11 pm
Not true.  You are certainly exaggerating to plead your case.

He's not alone.  When the 7 classification talk started, plenty of people were saying the same thing.

footballfan81

"Wonder what the multiplier for this will be: 3.5?"

That's what it will be if the AAA membership votes it.

Yukon Cornelius

Quote from: footballfan81 on August 03, 2006, 04:55:44 pm
"Wonder what the multiplier for this will be: 3.5?"

That's what it will be if the AAA membership votes it.

I think we should just settle it and put all private schools in the highest classification.  Then we would not have to worry about it.

football_writer

It's over...the judge ruled against the injunction filed by the Ar Baptist parent.  Sorry Mr. Holt, your son, and his 10 teammates (11 in all) will just have to play (on the field) outnumbered (whatever) by those 11 people on the other side of the ball

HA_Fan

Quote from: football_writer on August 03, 2006, 05:09:00 pm
Sorry Mr. Holt, your son, and his 10 teammates (11 in all) will just have to play (on the field) outnumbered (whatever) by those 11 people on the other side of the ball

That's the strongest argument for no multiplier at all that I've seen.

mudturtle

August 03, 2006, 05:23:12 pm #37 Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 05:28:40 pm by mudturtle
Quote from: Mr. Gator on August 03, 2006, 04:57:02 pm
I think we should just settle it and put all private schools in the highest classification.  Then we would not have to worry about it.

Unfortunately it could happen if the 3A, 4A, and 5A still can't beat the private schools. 

The smaller schools outnumber the big schools and could just vote to move them up and out. 

The larger schools would feel screwed because they end up having 4 games a year which are less challenging than practice games and end early due to mercy rules.  The little schools wouldn't care because the "majority" rules.

Guetz

Quote from: transplant on August 03, 2006, 01:11:15 pm
Quote from: Guetz on August 03, 2006, 04:32:27 am
Use a performance measure to determine classification.
Reward mediocrity!!
Punish excellence!!
Guetz is your real last name Kennedy or is it Biden?

If a school's program is so strong that it is consistently dominant in its classification, why is it a punishment to move it up to a higher level of competition.  If we transplant your logic, would you feel like you had achieved something if you won an egg toss competing against 7 year olds?  Do you get off on winning the church cake walk with pre-schoolers as your competitors?

Let's look at a practicality.  Which do you think the D-1 recruiter favors?  A very good athlete in a good program playing against a weak conference and consistently weaker playoff opponents or a very good athlete in a good program playing in a tough conference and even tougher playoff opponents?  The tough conference and classification showcases that student athlete's abilities and talents better. 

Excellence is rewarded with the opportunity to take on greater challenges.

Subiaco is classed 4A.  Unless they change their program, which they historically haven't, they don't stand a chance.  Why would kids who like to play football want to go out for football at a school that consistently finishes at the bottom of its conference, losing virtually every game they play?  Why is it a punishment for that school to drop to a more equivalent level of competition?

(Note also that I included a possibility for deferring a drop in classification, allowing a program a chance or two to pick itself up off the bottom, perhaps by changing coaches or funding or whatever)

And finally.... why is the system that I propose less logical than the current system that moves a school up, sometimes to face competition they aren't able to handle, because their enrollment increased a few students.  Or moves a school down in classification because of an enrollment decline at which point they are able to totally dominate the lower classification (think Shiloh).  Enrollment as a determinate is infinitely less logical than using performance measures that directly addresses the concerns (valid or not) that led to the increase in the multiplier.

Who's getting rewarded and who's getting punished?  Seems the students lose in a multiplier system.  But, Transplant, if your ego wall has to be filled with egg toss ribbons and cake walk plaques, I could see how you would view a move to tougher competition as a punishment. 

That said, you better get ready for the water balloon war, Wal-Mart has 50 balloons for $2.79!  Meanwhile everyone else will get ready to play (and watch) real sports and hopefully the best of competition!  :D


Oh.... almost forgot..... my real last name is closer to McCain, Bush or Hannity but not quite as far as Limbaugh or Savage.  Boortz is pretty close.  Has a "Z" in it.  LOL

football_writer

Quote from: HA_Fan? on August 03, 2006, 05:10:57 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 03, 2006, 05:09:00 pm
Sorry Mr. Holt, your son, and his 10 teammates (11 in all) will just have to play (on the field) outnumbered (whatever) by those 11 people on the other side of the ball

That's the strongest argument for no multiplier at all that I've seen.

Odd that if there was no multiplier, the Class AA would be a feasting fround for Harding Academy and Shiloh Christian

Bleachermom

Quote from: football_writer on August 03, 2006, 05:58:30 pm
Quote from: HA_Fan? on August 03, 2006, 05:10:57 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 03, 2006, 05:09:00 pm
Sorry Mr. Holt, your son, and his 10 teammates (11 in all) will just have to play (on the field) outnumbered (whatever) by those 11 people on the other side of the ball

That's the strongest argument for no multiplier at all that I've seen.

Odd that if there was no multiplier, the Class AA would be a feasting fround for Harding Academy and Shiloh Christian

If you consider a "feasting ground" one championship in 25 years, you have very low standards.

football_writer

Quote from: Bleachermom on August 03, 2006, 06:12:41 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 03, 2006, 05:58:30 pm
Quote from: HA_Fan? on August 03, 2006, 05:10:57 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 03, 2006, 05:09:00 pm
Sorry Mr. Holt, your son, and his 10 teammates (11 in all) will just have to play (on the field) outnumbered (whatever) by those 11 people on the other side of the ball

That's the strongest argument for no multiplier at all that I've seen.

Odd that if there was no multiplier, the Class AA would be a feasting fround for Harding Academy and Shiloh Christian

If you consider a "feasting ground" one championship in 25 years, you have very low standards.

So...you're saying between Harding Academy and Shiloh Christian, there has been only ONE high school football championship?  Wrong.  SC has many as does HA

neafbfan

OK OK OK! It's over, for now. So let's back to getting ready for the season as is. TY JUdge McGowan. I'm still tickled at the irony of a female judge deciding the fate of Arkansas HS football. LOL.

warriorhipster

"consistently finishes at the bottom of its conference, losing virtually every game they play?"

Why? The game is fun and the memories are wonderful. Think about it...can you recall the record of every team you ever played on? No? I agree that the multiplier is really a hurtful system. I do not understand why the top teams do not complain. Evening up the teams is the right thing to do. The real solution is to have a board sit and review the records and potential of every team in a given area and then set the conferences every year, behind closed doors. Small schools would play small schools and larger ones would play larger ones and if a large school was getting ripped or no one came out they could go to a lower division. If a program, regardless of size began to dominate year after year set them up as a showcase team and let them play around the state and the region. Adults could do this system and make it work...adult children could not. 

As it stands, some teams are just going to get rolled year after year. The Springdales will be the Springdales....It seems those in power wish it that way.

HA_Fan

August 03, 2006, 10:01:00 pm #44 Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 11:16:51 am by HA_Fan™
Quote from: football_writer on August 03, 2006, 06:14:56 pm
So...you're saying between Harding Academy and Shiloh Christian, there has been only ONE high school football championship?  Wrong.  SC has many as does HA

I think she was talking about HA, who does have 1 in the last 20 or 25 years.  Shiloh has 2 or 3.

3 or 4 in 25 years is far from making AA a "feasting ground".  Rison and Barton combined have 3 times that number.  Did that concern you as much?

kijex13

Quote from: HA_Fan™ on August 03, 2006, 04:44:00 pm
Quote from: Mr. Gator on August 03, 2006, 04:23:11 pm
Not true.  You are certainly exaggerating to plead your case.

He's not alone.  When the 7 classification talk started, plenty of people were saying the same thing.

While I don't like the 1.75 multiplier, I think the 7 classification is much more ridiculous.

kijex13

Quote from: Guetz on August 03, 2006, 05:25:32 pm
Quote from: transplant on August 03, 2006, 01:11:15 pm
Quote from: Guetz on August 03, 2006, 04:32:27 am
Use a performance measure to determine classification.
Reward mediocrity!!
Punish excellence!!
Guetz is your real last name Kennedy or is it Biden?

If a school's program is so strong that it is consistently dominant in its classification, why is it a punishment to move it up to a higher level of competition.  If we transplant your logic, would you feel like you had achieved something if you won an egg toss competing against 7 year olds?  Do you get off on winning the church cake walk with pre-schoolers as your competitors?

You had me until the cake walk analogy.  If I get a cake for free, I don't care who I beat, I'm happy.

Super Scrapper

Quote from: kijex on August 03, 2006, 10:16:13 pm
Quote from: Guetz on August 03, 2006, 05:25:32 pm
Quote from: transplant on August 03, 2006, 01:11:15 pm
Quote from: Guetz on August 03, 2006, 04:32:27 am
Use a performance measure to determine classification.
Reward mediocrity!!
Punish excellence!!
Guetz is your real last name Kennedy or is it Biden?

If a school's program is so strong that it is consistently dominant in its classification, why is it a punishment to move it up to a higher level of competition.  If we transplant your logic, would you feel like you had achieved something if you won an egg toss competing against 7 year olds?  Do you get off on winning the church cake walk with pre-schoolers as your competitors?

You had me until the cake walk analogy.  If I get a cake for free, I don't care who I beat, I'm happy.

A wolf in sheep's clothing, don't you feel the same about football?  lol....SS

Go Scrappers
  ::)

alex

you do not need all these fancy multipliers. just have 2 divisions d-1 for public and d-2 for the rest and let these private, charter recruting schools hash it out.that what tenn did and works very well.

Sensitive

Quote from: alex on August 21, 2006, 04:12:14 pm
you do not need all these fancy multipliers. just have 2 divisions d-1 for public and d-2 for the rest and let these private, charter recruting schools hash it out.that what tenn did and works very well.

You do not have a clue what you are talking about.

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