28-23???

[sevenof400]

I do not have a dog in this hunt but I will offer this observation - for the last several years, Batesville has had a sizable number of athletic females and this has benefited them in several sports.  I'm thinking mainly of volleyball, basketball and soccer but I suspect they have been more successful in track, softball, etc lately as these athletes likely play sd many sports as they can..  Good for them!   

[RedWolf275]

I thought he would win one with Brittney Richardson and his daughter back in 06 at ICC!

Batesville is obviously a different team than last season. Not defending anyone in this argument, but that's a pointless comment about one game.

Sorry, I'm NOT the one who started the Batesville dropping to 2A crap. Give me a freaking break lol!

[JessieP]

Sorry, I'm NOT the one who started the Batesville dropping to 2A crap. Give me a freaking break lol!

No, you WERE the one that said there is an impressive gulf between 4A and 5A, that WAS you. I simply followed your deluded thinking to it's illogical conclusion.

[beach bum]

You think holding the ball is a disgusting way of playing offense - go play defense! 

Why do people make this so complicated?  Defense is just as important to the success of a team as is offense.  It is NOT a universally held truth that holding the ball is (as you put it) a "disgusting chicken doo doo way of playing".  It IS a universal truth that holding the ball is an attempt to force the other team to play at your desired pace (for whatever reasons). 

Let's even double down here - The shot clock is the lazy (wo)man's way of avoiding having to play defense!

I, for one, love seeing a team given little to no chance of winning frustrate the beejezers out of the opposition by imposing its will (thus setting the pace of play) in a game and forcing the (supposedly) better opponent to play at a pace they are not use to. 

THE HIGH SCHOOL GAME SHOULD -NEVER- BE INFECTED WITH A SHOT CLOCK!

Got to disagree here about the shot clock somehow making it a "lazier" game.... You and I follow soccer as well where they chart a players mileage throughout a match and its not as popularized in basketball to do so, but they also do this in the NBA. It's crazy the amount of mileage Kobe, or MJ would log in a game compared to most players because they were true 2-way players who played defense along with their offensive game. The shot clock makes their effort go up if anything the amount of mileage and just overall movement/effort in general you have to exert chasing around the other teams best players. The last I looked at that chart in todays game guys like Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, and Jimmy Butler are at the top because they play a huge offensive role and get the task of guarding the other teams best threat for a huge chunk of the game.


I know I am using the NBA here as an example to compare with small, town girls basketball and maybe that's not the best I know, but the shot clock does not make it lazier. It actually increases a teams exertion throughout the game.


An obvious example is you can play stall ball and have a 5 player rotation easy, no problems as long as they stay out of foul trouble.... And they should not have foul problems in that little possessions. No coach could get away with a 5 man rotation if they're trying a UNLV run and gun press from the 90's. Too much running up and down would eventually wear teams out to only playing 5 players.


I may be missing your point all together though cause you may mean lazy from a more tactical, schematic, or game planning standpoint? If so then I can see you making points there. If they ever go shot clock I think it would be wise to switch to zone more often and use the shot clock against the offense in a softer zone, and I think it would really emphasize rotations even more in the man to man. You'd really want your players rotating and helping to kick the ball out and either have them take long range shots or kicking it out to re-run the offense and keep that shot clock rolling. It would make coaches find ways to use the shot clock against teams. I think a really good defensive mind could use a shot clock to their favor. The last NBA teams to use the shot clock against teams with their superior rotations were the Spurs and Pistons of the late 2000's. They made defense fun to watch actually and knew how to use a short 24 seconds against opponents. I sadly am not sure we will see that ever again in the new look NBA. In college Virginia's coach is brilliant with his pack line defense. He is essentially is just using the shot clock against the opponent. Bad offensive teams have no chance against that.

[JessieP]

Got to disagree here about the shot clock somehow making it a "lazier" game.... You and I follow soccer as well where they chart a players mileage throughout a match and its not as popularized in basketball to do so, but they also do this in the NBA. It's crazy the amount of mileage Kobe, or MJ would log in a game compared to most players because they were true 2-way players who played defense along with their offensive game. The shot clock makes their effort go up if anything the amount of mileage and just overall movement/effort in general you have to exert chasing around the other teams best players. The last I looked at that chart in todays game guys like Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, and Jimmy Butler are at the top because they play a huge offensive role and get the task of guarding the other teams best threat for a huge chunk of the game.


I know I am using the NBA here as an example to compare with small, town girls basketball and maybe that's not the best I know, but the shot clock does not make it lazier. It actually increases a teams exertion throughout the game.


An obvious example is you can play stall ball and have a 5 player rotation easy, no problems as long as they stay out of foul trouble.... And they should not have foul problems in that little possessions. No coach could get away with a 5 man rotation if they're trying a UNLV run and gun press from the 90's. Too much running up and down would eventually wear teams out to only playing 5 players.


I may be missing your point all together though cause you may mean lazy from a more tactical, schematic, or game planning standpoint? If so then I can see you making points there. If they ever go shot clock I think it would be wise to switch to zone more often and use the shot clock against the offense in a softer zone, and I think it would really emphasize rotations even more in the man to man. You'd really want your players rotating and helping to kick the ball out and either have them take long range shots or kicking it out to re-run the offense and keep that shot clock rolling. It would make coaches find ways to use the shot clock against teams. I think a really good defensive mind could use a shot clock to their favor. The last NBA teams to use the shot clock against teams with their superior rotations were the Spurs and Pistons of the late 2000's. They made defense fun to watch actually and knew how to use a short 24 seconds against opponents. I sadly am not sure we will see that ever again in the new look NBA. In college Virginia's coach is brilliant with his pack line defense. He is essentially is just using the shot clock against the opponent. Bad offensive teams have no chance against that.

That you for concisely saying what I stammered through. Perfect post. To say the shot clock promotes laziness is 180 degrees from the truth. No shot clock fosters a lazy game. Basketball with a shot clock puts extreme pressure on the offense to instantly turn into defense. 

[beach bum]

That you for concisely saying what I stammered through. Perfect post. To say the shot clock promotes laziness is 180 degrees from the truth. No shot clock fosters a lazy game. Basketball with a shot clock puts extreme pressure on the offense to instantly turn into defense.

More than anything its what I said.... Coaches would have to start being creative, and use the shot clock against the other team. I think the zone would pop up more. A 3/4 court press where you aren't really trying to steal the ball but make the offense waste time up the court. And in the college game I can't believe more teams don't use that packline defense Virginia uses. It's absolutely hideous to watch, but they run it to perfection and make teams look lost on offense.

[JessieP]

More than anything its what I said.... Coaches would have to start being creative, and use the shot clock against the other team. I think the zone would pop up more. A 3/4 court press where you aren't really trying to steal the ball but make the offense waste time up the court. And in the college game I can't believe more teams don't use that packline defense Virginia uses. It's absolutely hideous to watch, but they run it to perfection and make teams look lost on offense.

The thrust of my whole post that started it was the Batesville/Brookland game in district. I understand slowing it up, milking the clock, going 4 corners and other stall offenses. What Brookland did was literally have the PG hold the ball on her hip, standing perfectly still for 4 minutes and 37 seconds. That is no exaggeration, she stood there. I understand people saying "Batesville should have done this" I get that. My point was what are those girls learning? What was the coach telling them? Stand there? I heard the "Win at any cost" defense but good lord. Why not have a sophomore 4th stringer sucker punch the other teams best player? Win at any cost teaches the kids nothing. By standing there the coach told the players/parents/fans "We are outgunned, no way we win by simply playing, let's turn it into a sideshow gimmick game"

[Intelligentsia]

As long as the rules permit a player to hold the ball for 4+ minutes, it's perfectly O.K. to do so.  If you think players are missing a lot of skill development by stalling the ball in a game or a few games, you've not been watching the game very long.  It's a strategy used to win, and one that has been used for as long as I've been watching the game game (50+ years) and it's legal.  Taking advantage of the rules is part of other games and part of life:  We look for legal tax breaks, take relief on the golf course, take short cuts, ...   If you're concerned with the rules, do something to change them. 

[JessieP]

As long as the rules permit a player to hold the ball for 4+ minutes, it's perfectly O.K. to do so.  If you think players are missing a lot of skill development by stalling the ball in a game or a few games, you've not been watching the game very long.  It's a strategy used to win, and one that has been used for as long as I've been watching the game game (50+ years) and it's legal.  Taking advantage of the rules is part of other games and part of life:  We look for legal tax breaks, take relief on the golf course, take short cuts, ...   If you're concerned with the rules, do something to change them.

When I referred to being illegal what I meant was...wait...I NEVER said it was illegal, I said it was Chicken doodie and it had nothing to do with coaching. You're correct, prior to this season I hadn't watched a lot of high school basketball in Arkansas, if what you're saying is correct, that it's a common practice, then I don't see myself watching much more. I can watch something a little more entertaining. Perhaps channel 6 on suddenlink here in Batesville. They show slides of various local ads while playing bluegrass music. That is far more exciting than the stand and wait offense, it actually requires more skill. The shot clock can't get here fast enough, it's 100% coming. Imagine that, having to coach kids to actually play basketball, what a concept!

[athletic supporter]

When I referred to being illegal what I meant was...wait...I NEVER said it was illegal, I said it was Chicken doodie and it had nothing to do with coaching. You're correct, prior to this season I hadn't watched a lot of high school basketball in Arkansas, if what you're saying is correct, that it's a common practice, then I don't see myself watching much more. I can watch something a little more entertaining. Perhaps channel 6 on suddenlink here in Batesville. They show slides of various local ads while playing bluegrass music. That is far more exciting than the stand and wait offense, it actually requires more skill. The shot clock can't get here fast enough, it's 100% coming. Imagine that, having to coach kids to actually play basketball, what a concept!

Good! When you quit watching will you please stop posting as well? You get your feelings hurt way too easy. If people don't agree with you then you get all defensive. Sheesh! Loosen up a little Alice!

[JessieP]

Good! When you quit watching will you please stop posting as well? You get your feelings hurt way too easy. If people don't agree with you then you get all defensive. Sheesh! Loosen up a little Alice!

Feelings hurt? Hardly snowflake. This is only the 3rd or 4th time you've time you've responded to me instead of the topic. You need to up your game puppy. At this pace you're barely what I'd call infatuated. I know you strive for full blown obsession so pick up the pace sweetie.

[Frank Abagnale Jr.]

As long as the rules permit a player to hold the ball for 4+ minutes, it's perfectly O.K. to do so.  If you think players are missing a lot of skill development by stalling the ball in a game or a few games, you've not been watching the game very long.  It's a strategy used to win, and one that has been used for as long as I've been watching the game game (50+ years) and it's legal.  Taking advantage of the rules is part of other games and part of life:  We look for legal tax breaks, take relief on the golf course, take short cuts, ...   If you're concerned with the rules, do something to change them.

I agree that it's okay and it's been used as a tactic, but obviously more advanced levels of play decided at some point that a shot clock was necessary. The shot clock will come to high school soon and we all will get a little more excitement at the games!

Brookland's girls didn't win with the strategy though - they just beat Batesville that game. From what I understand, they were the better team overall that night. I wasn't there so I'm not sure.

Did somebody mention soccer earlier? What's that?

[JessieP]

I agree that it's okay and it's been used as a tactic, but obviously more advanced levels of play decided at some point that a shot clock was necessary. The shot clock will come to high school soon and we all will get a little more excitement at the games!

Brookland's girls didn't win with the strategy though - they just beat Batesville that game. From what I understand, they were the better team overall that night. I wasn't there so I'm not sure.

Did somebody mention soccer earlier? What's that?

at it's last National convention the NFHS concluded that a National shot clock mandate is a question of when not if. The 8 states who currently have one are the top 8 for producing college talent. They reported higher attendance and interest in the games. In 2020 the number of states with one will be at 22 and the general feeling is that it will be the norm within 3 or 4 years. Basketball purist rejoice, it's long overdue.

[RedWolf275]

Good! When you quit watching will you please stop posting as well? You get your feelings hurt way too easy. If people don't agree with you then you get all defensive. Sheesh! Loosen up a little Alice!

This was great! And very true.