Max prep rankings

[RamblinRazorWreck]

It has nothing to do with McBride, most states surrounding us already have moved in that direction. I won't go deep into it, but simply look at % of state championships won by private schools compared to the % of public. Then look at how many private schools vs public schools & you will see the vast disparity, that can not be equalized by any multiplier put on a private school. Simply apples against apples & oranges against oranges. JMO

I have seen Manila and Baptist play, and the only difference I saw was... McBride.  Without him, I would call that game a toss-up.  Baptist has won 3 consecutive Championships with the only two common elements being McBride and Coach Ross (although the Vanover brothers were a huge factor - pun intended - until last season).  Coach Ross has Central undefeated so far this year, so let's see what happens this year... and then next year when Issac is a Jayhawk.  I have no doubt Baptist will be a good team... but nothing like what we have seen the last 4 years.       

I don't try to compare Arkansas to Texas, for many of the same reasons I don't try to compare the USA to Canada.  They can do whatever they like across those borders, as far as I am concerned.  This is about kids and sports, which often gets left out of these debates.  If any new rule makes it appealing (or worse - necessary) for kids to pull up roots and move for sports reasons, then it is not a very good rule, IMO.  Anyway, I would appeal to you that over 95% of kids in private schools are there for reasons other than sports.   

I have to assume you would also be for removing Private Schools from Quiz Bowl and Band Competitions?

I would submit that one reason this issue seems to be exacerbated in Arkansas is because of the number of small Public schools and the fact that most of Privates are also small(ish).  If the Public School districts were consolidated by County (like the surrounding States) and all of the public school enrollments were bigger, it is almost certain that the number of Championships won by the private schools in major sports would go down considerably.

Conversely, if all of the Private Schools were as big as Catholic, then I don't think we would be having these discussions ad nauseam.

I grew up around NE Atlanta where there were 8 or 10 very large High Schools within about a 12 mile radius.  The local Private school was smaller and was the team we all beat up on in the non-conference, and I never heard anyone complain about it.   

[Head Lion]

I am not against private schools, they without a doubt do a great job educating kids. If anyone can't see the inherent advantages of private schools vs public schools, we can't even debate this. What % of private school kids are special needs, what % of private school kids meet guidelines for free or reduced lunches, what % of private school kids come from 2 parent homes, what % of private school kids have a post secondary graduate in their home. These are great for private school kids & usually lead to better chance at success in a multitude of directions in life. I am saying a public school has no choice, a kid shows up on their campus, they have to educate them. If they are 6'10" or in a wheelchair, if neither parent went past 8th grade or both are professionals. I don't think talking about how they do it in Texas or TN is like comparing USA & Canada. I'm not against private schools, they just have inherent advantages that no multiplier can figure. I'm not talking about recruiting, actually easier to go to another public school in rural Arkansas. JMO & I'm smart enough to know that doesn't make it fact.✌🏼

[RamblinRazorWreck]

I am not against private schools, they without a doubt do a great job educating kids. If anyone can't see the inherent advantages of private schools vs public schools, we can't even debate this. What % of private school kids are special needs, what % of private school kids meet guidelines for free or reduced lunches, what % of private school kids come from 2 parent homes, what % of private school kids have a post secondary graduate in their home. These are great for private school kids & usually lead to better chance at success in a multitude of directions in life. I am saying a public school has no choice, a kid shows up on their campus, they have to educate them. If they are 6'10" or in a wheelchair, if neither parent went past 8th grade or both are professionals. I don't think talking about how they do it in Texas or TN is like comparing USA & Canada. I'm not against private schools, they just have inherent advantages that no multiplier can figure. I'm not talking about recruiting, actually easier to go to another public school in rural Arkansas. JMO & I'm smart enough to know that doesn't make it fact.✌🏼

The USA/Canada thing was simply a big/small comparison, which I tried to develop an argument for that went both ways.   

My oldest son was special needs and we chose private because they did what HE needed much better and without talking down to us as parents.  I don't know how many times we were told "we are taking care of it" by the staff at a Public school that didn't give a flip about our son.  Once we had enough and moved him to a private school, he was treated and cared for in much the same we treat him as his parents.  (BTW, he is a Sophomore in College now and making his own way... just 6 or 7 years ago, I wondered if that could ever happen.  I am thankful to God for that... but also for his Godly teachers.)  Baptist has a great program for Special Needs kids that has attracted a lot of families into the school system. 

How many free lunch kids excel at sports because that is their main focus?  They don't have a lot of the same distractions as kids with more "opportunities".  That discussion can go either way, especially when talking about basketball and football.  But I understand exactly what you are saying.

Again, I just think the focus needs to be on the kids and what is best for them.  The school "equality" stuff we hear about seems to me to be distracting a lot of folks from raising the bar all across the board.  The PCSSD brew-ha-ha going on right now is about one school having it better than another... when both just built brand new state-of-the-art facilities that meet the same State Standards. 
 

[Missco]

Head Lion is spot on.

[Head Lion]

There are a place for all. If you look back at my posts, I have said this for years. This is not because of one kid who can dribble & shoot. I really noticed it more than ever at a summer camp this summer. We were at PA & I'm looking at the FB banners & I am proud we have such a great program in Arkansas. I noticed tho on last years banner, 80 young men were listed on the team. I thought what % of male students that was? This is definitely something to be proud of, but almost incapable of happening in a public school.

[RamblinRazorWreck]

There are a place for all. If you look back at my posts, I have said this for years. This is not because of one kid who can dribble & shoot. I really noticed it more than ever at a summer camp this summer. We were at PA & I'm looking at the FB banners & I am proud we have such a great program in Arkansas. I noticed tho on last years banner, 80 young men were listed on the team. I thought what % of male students that was? This is definitely something to be proud of, but almost incapable of happening in a public school.

What percentage of that participation would you attribute to the winning atmosphere and how much would you place on PA being a private school?  How about applying those percentages to why Baptist had 26 to 28 Football players the last 3 years?

[Head Lion]

What percentage of that participation would you attribute to the winning atmosphere and how much would you place on PA being a private school?  How about applying those percentages to why Baptist had 26 to 28 Football players the last 3 years?

I am proud for your son with special needs got to a place where he could excel. I am fairly on point with my data, that there are inherent advantages. I know of no study which would show otherwise. I do know also, I do not know everything or have all the answers. I'm just an old redneck from the Delta.

[Ctucker]

The USA/Canada thing was simply a big/small comparison, which I tried to develop an argument for that went both ways.   

My oldest son was special needs and we chose private because they did what HE needed much better and without talking down to us as parents.  I don't know how many times we were told "we are taking care of it" by the staff at a Public school that didn't give a flip about our son.  Once we had enough and moved him to a private school, he was treated and cared for in much the same we treat him as his parents.  (BTW, he is a Sophomore in College now and making his own way... just 6 or 7 years ago, I wondered if that could ever happen.  I am thankful to God for that... but also for his Godly teachers.)  Baptist has a great program for Special Needs kids that has attracted a lot of families into the school system. 

How many free lunch kids excel at sports because that is their main focus?  They don't have a lot of the same distractions as kids with more "opportunities".  That discussion can go either way, especially when talking about basketball and football.  But I understand exactly what you are saying.

Again, I just think the focus needs to be on the kids and what is best for them.  The school "equality" stuff we hear about seems to me to be distracting a lot of folks from raising the bar all across the board.  The PCSSD brew-ha-ha going on right now is about one school having it better than another... when both just built brand new state-of-the-art facilities that meet the same State Standards. 
 

whats that got to do with athletics!

[Ctucker]

Sorry put wrong quote I meant this for head lions

[RamblinRazorWreck]

I am proud for your son with special needs got to a place where he could excel. I am fairly on point with my data, that there are inherent advantages. I know of no study which would show otherwise. I do know also, I do not know everything or have all the answers. I'm just an old redneck from the Delta.

Thanks.  Hey, I'm just an old redneck from LA (lower Arkansaw) by way of Hotlanta.  I don't have all the answers either and I agree with you on a lot of your points!  What I do have is experience with both public (me and all of my extended family, except my youngest son) and private (both of my sons), and the common thread to me is THE KIDS ARE THE SAME in both. 

I pay everything for my kids to go to their schools and also help pay into the public schools around me.   I want what is best for all of them, but can only do what I can, when I can.  The thing I do get to do beyond my immediate influence is I help design a lot of school buildings all over the State.  I enjoy seeing everyone get new facilities to use as tools to teach & grow the kids.

[2fe]

It's dumb to think the AAA gives privates an advantage...AAA is run by public school admins.

There simply aren't enough privates in AR for them to have their own division. And, as soon as you do this, watch the lawyers(mostly representing Catholic, they've warned them before over other talked about proposals) come out ready to take down the AAA.

[Head Lion]

Thanks.  Hey, I'm just an old redneck from LA (lower Arkansaw) by way of Hotlanta.  I don't have all the answers either and I agree with you on a lot of your points!  What I do have is experience with both public (me and all of my extended family, except my youngest son) and private (both of my sons), and the common thread to me is THE KIDS ARE THE SAME in both. 

I pay everything for my kids to go to their schools and also help pay into the public schools around me.   I want what is best for all of them, but can only do what I can, when I can.  The thing I do get to do beyond my immediate influence is I help design a lot of school buildings all over the State.  I enjoy seeing everyone get new facilities to use as tools to teach & grow the kids.

Seen our new high school at Manila, it is pretty awesome & the best thing is it's for the kids & the staff.👌🏼

[Missco]

The AAA board is made up of supt.'s. I am talking about the staff. Just like a school from NWA is going to get treated different than 1 from Phillip's county.

[Head Lion]

It's dumb to think the AAA gives privates an advantage...AAA is run by public school admins.

There simply aren't enough privates in AR for them to have their own division. And, as soon as you do this, watch the lawyers(mostly representing Catholic, they've warned them before over other talked about proposals) come out ready to take down the AAA.

The New School in Fayetteville has made the debate laughable, if it wasn't unfair to kids. How many private schools in the state, I would think at least as many as in 6A & possible 5A?

[RedWolf275]

Yeah, I'm with Head Lion on this and I'm not really concerned with what other states are doing.

[Ctucker]

Babtist Prep has 538 students that's 200 les than our school and we are middle of pack 2a school!

[RamblinRazorWreck]

What % of private school kids meet guidelines for free or reduced lunches?

What % of private school kids come from 2 parent homes?

What % of private school kids have a post secondary graduate in their home?

Not to beat this dead horse forever, but:

What % of NFL & NBA players got free or reduced lunches, came from a single parent home, or had no College education backgrounds at all in their families?  Wouldn't that data most likely work against the conclusion of excluding schools that have fewer kids that DON'T fit those categories from competing against those that do? 

And if private schools came up with more money to help more kids that fit those categories, wouldn't the foul cry be even louder?  Because I am quite certain that if that happened, private school teams would get even better, not worse.

I have no issues with real data.  Some of the conclusions and proposed solutions drawn from it though, can be less than helpful and even more "unfair" than the perceived unfairness they are intended to fix, IMO.