Who is on the early list?
Bo to Arkadelphia, smarter fans.
What happened with their coach?
Quote from: Trojanbird on April 10, 2018, 01:33:42 pm
What happened with their coach?
Looks like he's going to Conway
Quote from: Oldman on April 10, 2018, 01:12:12 pm
Bo to Arkadelphia, smarter fans.
Don't wish that evil on me Ricky Bobby.
Once again, another early April head coach opening. This one will be easy to fill, and shouldn't have as big of a problem losing players than other schools. I don't know if I would have left unless the salary at Conway is upward of $200k, which it may very well be. Maybe they get someone that can keep the talent level where it's at now...
Quote from: PokeyRedskinStudentScout on April 10, 2018, 02:47:33 pm
Once again, another early April head coach opening. This one will be easy to fill, and shouldn't have as big of a problem losing players than other schools. I don't know if I would have left unless the salary at Conway is upward of $200k, which it may very well be. Maybe they get someone that can keep the talent level where it's at now...
Salary is not great at Conway. It is better than Arky but then again they do not pay very good. You would think Conway would pay better than it does. They are one of the biggest schools in the state but their pay scale does not represent that. Must be hard to leave arguably the 3 best players in the conference in Turner, Hatley and Tademy returning off of a state champion team. Then again this is not the first time Eldridge has looked at other jobs.
Conway shows to currently pay around 86k. Arkadelphia around 78k.
Not sure i would have left a potential state champion for 8k extra this year..
Quote from: scrapman on April 10, 2018, 03:33:16 pm
Salary is not great at Conway. It is better than Arky but then again they do not pay very good. You would think Conway would pay better than it does. They are one of the biggest schools in the state but their pay scale does not represent that. Must be hard to leave arguably the 3 best players in the conference in Turner, Hatley and Tademy returning off of a state champion team. Then again this is not the first time Eldridge has looked at other jobs.
Heard Tademy's dad is no longer the DC at Henderson. Took a HC job in Texas I believe. Will son stay or go play for dad?
Quote from: Mr. Mercer on April 10, 2018, 05:55:26 pm
Heard Tademy's dad is no longer the DC at Henderson. Took a HC job in Texas I believe. Will son stay or go play for dad?
With my dad leaving and my HC leaving, I would think he may leave also. I would play for my dad my senior year. Who knows though.
Quote from: Mr. Mercer on April 10, 2018, 05:55:26 pm
Heard Tademy's dad is no longer the DC at Henderson. Took a HC job in Texas I believe. Will son stay or go play for dad?
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/dfwvarsity/article206557484.html
Quote from: scrapman on April 10, 2018, 06:03:05 pm
With my dad leaving and my HC leaving, I would think he may leave also. I would play for my dad my senior year. Who knows though.
Why would he stay if his dad/family move?
Just heard word that he is staying in Arkadelphia.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on April 10, 2018, 08:57:32 pm
Why would he stay if his dad/family move?
I was wondering for a while if I was the only one who thought this through too and asked that same question.... I thought everyone was going crazy for a second there.
Quote from: mharris31696 on April 11, 2018, 02:08:36 pm
Just heard word that he is staying in Arkadelphia.
Not a good look in my opinion if he really told Conway he was taking their job and backed out. I am not saying he made the wrong choice ultimately. Him backing out shows his heart was in Arkadelphia all along which is a good thing for him and the Badgers. Just that I imagine in the locker room he tells kids all the time to honor their word. I know I heard my coaches say that plenty. Don't commit to something if your not committed completely in the first place. Now, if he never really accepted the job verbally that is one thing.
Quote from: mharris31696 on April 11, 2018, 02:08:36 pm
Just heard word that he is staying in Arkadelphia.
By he do you mean Tademy or Eldridge?
Quote from: fann07 on April 11, 2018, 02:24:10 pm
By he do you mean Tademy or Eldridge?
Ok so I didn't even think of that possibility before I posted what I did above... Now I am just confused haha.
Quote from: fann07 on April 11, 2018, 02:24:10 pm
By he do you mean Tademy or Eldridge?
Sorry didnt think about that before I posted. Coach E.
Quote from: beach bum on April 11, 2018, 02:15:48 pm
Not a good look in my opinion if he really told Conway he was taking their job and backed out. I am not saying he made the wrong choice ultimately. Him backing out shows his heart was in Arkadelphia all along which is a good thing for him and the Badgers. Just that I imagine in the locker room he tells kids all the time to honor their word. I know I heard my coaches say that plenty. Don't commit to something if your not committed completely in the first place. Now, if he never really accepted the job verbally that is one thing.
We may never know the circumstances of why he's staying. He may have been offered the job and decided not to take it. Even though he's from northwest Arkansas he went to college in Arkadelphia, his wife is from this area, and has made a family here.
Did he get he offer or just called to interview and people thought wrong? Bad business if he accepted and then last minute said no
Quote from: nsuqb10 on April 11, 2018, 04:28:46 pm
Did he get he offer or just called to interview and people thought wrong? Bad business if he accepted and then last minute said no
7A board was saying it was a done deal.
Quote from: nsuqb10 on April 11, 2018, 04:28:46 pm
Did he get he offer or just called to interview and people thought wrong? Bad business if he accepted and then last minute said no
I honestly don't know. I had't even heard anything about it until today.
Business move, used Conway as leverage.
Quote from: Beaver Fever on April 12, 2018, 06:35:33 am
Business move, used Conway as leverage.
I hope that isn't true cause that would be even worse... This is high school. Not college or pro. I doubt that is true.... He probably just had a change of heart.
$$$$ can change your heart.
Before I retired from the business world I used this same strategy. I had a better offer from another company that would pay more, I told my company I was going to accept that position. They counter-offered and matched the other offer. If you are valued, people will do what they have to do to keep you.
I love the strategy HS coaches get fired all the time so why can't you use normal business strategies
At the end of the day, this is ya'll's "business". Coaching is how you pay your bills and support your family. I see nothing wrong with it.
Will they hire someone on the coaching staff like the oc ?or dc?
When it comes down to it, Arkadelphia school district pay is not very good. They have assistant football coaches that make $20,000 less than other assistant football coaches at 4a schools. Eldridge got his assistants some money and made himself some money.
Quote from: scrapman on April 12, 2018, 11:01:16 am
When it comes down to it, Arkadelphia school district pay is not very good. They have assistant football coaches that make $20,000 less than other assistant football coaches at 4a schools. Eldridge got his assistants some money and made himself some money.
Nothing wrong with positioning yourself for a better job. Better pay and benefits, better facilities and equipment, staff numbers , and Conway is a nice place to live.
My only question is why did coaches in these two cases accept and then back out. People that hire usually want some assurance that if the job is offered it will be accepted. I would imagine they felt that was the position they were in and were then surprised by the change of heart.
Stay tuned....
lol did he go back and take Conway
Part 2 to the leverage strategy is if it works you may upset a lot of people that didn't get a raise.
With that being said those that didn't get raises need to negotiate themselves
Quote from: Beaver Fever on April 12, 2018, 08:57:03 am
$$$$ can change your heart.
Before I retired from the business world I used this same strategy. I had a better offer from another company that would pay more, I told my company I was going to accept that position. They counter-offered and matched the other offer. If you are valued, people will do what they have to do to keep you.
The problem with this strategy in schools is that most of the administrators are not business managers and if they were their companies would be in bankruptcy. Schools are financially misrun and money wasted with the most valuable employees and the hardest workers often the most underpaid.
If yo're just a teacher there is no negotiations, there is a base salary scale so there is not any wiggle room. It's different for coaches because the stipends for each position are easily changed. Only real problem I could see would be title 9. Is the volleyball coach getting a raise?
I don't know that stipends are easily changed, if so then coaches at all schools would be better paid. However you do see schools coming up with money for coaches and administators when they want to keep them. JR did manage to get most of his staff some extra money as well. I imagine the community and some board members didnt want to see him leaving. What I don't understand is how some staff get a raise but not all? Strange move.
Quote from: Beaver Fever on April 13, 2018, 06:12:07 am
If yo're just a teacher there is no negotiations, there is a base salary scale so there is not any wiggle room. It's different for coaches because the stipends for each position are easily changed. Only real problem I could see would be title 9. Is the volleyball coach getting a raise?
Oklahoma would like to have a quick word with you to show otherwise...
Heard the boosters ponied up a chunk of $$$$$ to get him to stay in Arkadelphia. Now the teaching staff is upset. Sit back and watch the drama.
Saw that coming!
Teaching staff doesn't spend the hours nor do they get fired for losing. Most of the community wouldn't know their names and fans don't show up on Friday and pay to see them. Coaches are generally underpaid for what they do on the field or court. I know some people think a good number of them make up for that with not so good classroom performance.
Quote from: RZback on April 15, 2018, 09:45:23 am
Teaching staff doesn't spend the hours nor do they get fired for losing. Most of the community wouldn't know their names and fans don't show up on Friday and pay to see them. Coaches are generally underpaid for what they do on the field or court. I know some people think a good number of them make up for that with not so good classroom performance.
So do some of the teachers
Quote from: RZback on April 15, 2018, 09:45:23 am
Teaching staff doesn't spend the hours nor do they get fired for losing. Most of the community wouldn't know their names and fans don't show up on Friday and pay to see them. Coaches are generally underpaid for what they do on the field or court. I know some people think a good number of them make up for that with not so good classroom performance.
I've seen some really bad teacher/coaches but I've also seen some excellant coaches who were great in the class room. It's like everything some good some bad.
Quote from: RZback on April 15, 2018, 09:45:23 am
Teaching staff doesn't spend the hours nor do they get fired for losing. Most of the community wouldn't know their names and fans don't show up on Friday and pay to see them. Coaches are generally underpaid for what they do on the field or court. I know some people think a good number of them make up for that with not so good classroom performance.
My wife is a teacher. She is special education certified with two master degrees. I bet she puts in just as many hours out of the regular school time as any coach. You should see the amount of paper work required on a child that has a folder with modifications. She worked in the business world prior to going back to school to teach. Sure she would like more pay, but number of days worked and doing what she enjoys out weighs money. After nine years she is just now making the money she was prior to teaching.
Quote from: RZback on April 15, 2018, 09:45:23 am
Teaching staff doesn't spend the hours nor do they get fired for losing. Most of the community wouldn't know their names and fans don't show up on Friday and pay to see them. Coaches are generally underpaid for what they do on the field or court. I know some people think a good number of them make up for that with not so good classroom performance.
LOL.
Ok.
No worries folks: Surely a stand-up, family-man of his word, like Eldridge, will show his love for Arkadelphia and split his new found bonanza with his fellow teachers.
So...people are upset that Eldridge leveraged another job opportunity into a raise at his current job? Sounds like a shrewd business move to me. Kudos to him for getting it done.
Quote from: Gray lizard on April 16, 2018, 11:21:34 am
My wife is a teacher. She is special education certified with two master degrees. I bet she puts in just as many hours out of the regular school time as any coach. You should see the amount of paper work required on a child that has a folder with modifications. She worked in the business world prior to going back to school to teach. Sure she would like more pay, but number of days worked and doing what she enjoys out weighs money. After nine years she is just now making the money she was prior to teaching.I doubt it!! Does she work during the summer when these coaches are working 12 to 16 hours a day
My wife is a teacher. She is special education certified with two master degrees. I bet she puts in just as many hours out of the regular school time as any coach. You should see the amount of paper work required on a child that has a folder with modifications. She worked in the business world prior to going back to school to teach. Sure she would like more pay, but number of days worked and doing what she enjoys out weighs money. After nine years she is just now making the money she was prior to teaching.I doubt it!! Does she work during the summer when these coaches are working 12 to 16 hours a day
I bet she don't. I don't think you realize how much time coaches put in. I'm not saying she doesn't do her job well or anything else. She probably does put in some long hours, but coaches get paid about 2.00 an hour if you average out their pay hourly.
Quote from: WorkOrder on April 16, 2018, 01:29:34 pm
I doubt it!! Does she work during the summer when these coaches are working 12 to 16 hours a day
I bet she don't. I don't think you realize how much time coaches put in. I'm not saying she doesn't do her job well or anything else. She probably does put in some long hours, but coaches get paid about 2.00 an hour if you average out their pay hourly.
Well considering the coaches have an additional month or more on their contract. They also get paid a stipend, which is not a lot. She does not get to show up a few days before school starts to get her class ready. She works the whole entire month prior to school. These are full days and not paid. She has to meet with all parents prior to the start of school to cover the child's file(not paid) and then complete all the proper paper work then have it approved by the State. Any time through the year something changes with the child's folder she has to conduct a meeting with parents and have it approved again with the state. She always has a few parents wanting changes to their child's IPA several times a year. She also has several children she request changes to their IPA. I understand coaches put in a lot of hours, but just know they are not the only ones. I also know there are teachers that just work the school hours and nothing else.
Quote from: Gray lizard on April 16, 2018, 02:08:10 pm
Well considering the coaches have an additional month or more on their contract. They also get paid a stipend, which is not a lot. She does not get to show up a few days before school starts to get her class ready. She works the whole entire month prior to school. These are full days and not paid. She has to meet with all parents prior to the start of school to cover the child's file(not paid) and then complete all the proper paper work then have it approved by the State. Any time through the year something changes with the child's folder she has to conduct a meeting with parents and have it approved again with the state. She always has a few parents wanting changes to their child's IPA several times a year. She also has several children she request changes to their IPA. I understand coaches put in a lot of hours, but just know they are not the only ones. I also know there are teachers that just work the school hours and nothing else.
Awesome. Let's see her do that, Go to JV games out of town on Monday after a 2 hour practice, Practice and Film Review til about 6 Tuesday and Wednesday, Attend Jr High games on Thursday, Teach then drive a bus on friday (with out getting compensated for driving thats a classified job but the coaches are EXPECTED to do it) then breakdown film 8 till whenever on saturday. Oh, Try to raise two kids, teach 4-5 periods of a Core Class a day, make mods for students. Oh and Do that for 12-14 Weeks. Oh and lets see her not get paid to mow the field and the practice field then go home and mow her own. I haven't even got to offseason or balancing a spring sport.
Nobody freaking cares. Everybody in education is underpaid. If you want to be upset that a guy resurrected a program, won a state title, and is staying after losing a lot of talent to graduation, be upset. But don't complain about a job she willingly signed up to do.
Good grief....
Awesome. Let's see her do that, Go to JV games out of town on Monday after a 2 hour practice, Practice and Film Review til about 6 Tuesday and Wednesday, Attend Jr High games on Thursday, Teach then drive a bus on friday (with out getting compensated for driving thats a classified job but the coaches are EXPECTED to do it) then breakdown film 8 till whenever on saturday. Oh, Try to raise two kids, teach 4-5 periods of a Core Class a day, make mods for students. Oh and Do that for 12-14 Weeks. Oh and lets see her not get paid to mow the field and the practice field then go home and mow her own. I haven't even got to offseason or balancing a spring sport.
Nobody freaking cares. Everybody in education is underpaid. If you want to be upset that a guy resurrected a program, won a state title, and is staying after losing a lot of talent to graduation, be upset. But don't complain about a job she willingly signed up to do.
Oh Boo-Hoo, I guess the old ball coach didn't know what he signed up for.
I don't think you understand Band Hater. I was just pointing out coaches are not the only ones working uncompensated time in the schools. Even after your long list of what coaches do. I still bet my wife works close to that same amount of uncompensated time. I am glad the guy got increased pay. My wife is enjoying her job. Matter of fact her building brought in over $35,000 in NAEP funds to her district. That is if you care to research that. I doubt any of the sports programs bring in close to that amount.
Quote from: WorkOrder on April 16, 2018, 01:29:34 pm
coaches get paid about 2.00 an hour if you average out their pay hourly.
lol...might want to check that math. What you're saying is....If a coach works 24/7 for a year he'll bring home $17520? Gotcha....
I think we should go to Arkadelphia and protest. Who is with me?
Quote from: Oldman on April 16, 2018, 03:30:49 pm
I think we should go to Arkadelphia and protest. Who is with me?
(https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_16/2400416/180416-starbucks-philadelphia-protest-se-1110a_a06b68cae8395eef5804e88f6286c43f.focal-760x380.jpg)
(http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/funny-protest1.jpg)
Protesting is so beautiful and brave.....
Quote from: Oldman on April 16, 2018, 03:30:49 pm
I think we should go to Arkadelphia and protest. Who is with me?
I am with you. What are we protesting not that it matters.
(https://i.imgur.com/u851Atr.jpg)
Quote from: Gray lizard on April 16, 2018, 03:58:03 pm
I am with you. What are we protesting not that it matters.
I'm not sure.
Quote from: Gray lizard on April 16, 2018, 02:08:10 pm
Well considering the coaches have an additional month or more on their contract. They also get paid a stipend, which is not a lot. She does not get to show up a few days before school starts to get her class ready. She works the whole entire month prior to school. These are full days and not paid. She has to meet with all parents prior to the start of school to cover the child's file(not paid) and then complete all the proper paper work then have it approved by the State. Any time through the year something changes with the child's folder she has to conduct a meeting with parents and have it approved again with the state. She always has a few parents wanting changes to their child's IPA several times a year. She also has several children she request changes to their IPA. I understand coaches put in a lot of hours, but just know they are not the only ones. I also know there are teachers that just work the school hours and nothing else.
Everybody thinks they are overworked and underpaid nowadays. The only bad thing about being a coach is if you don't produce in those 2 hours Friday nite you will be looking for a job next year.
Quote from: Ranger on April 17, 2018, 05:38:43 am
Everybody thinks they are overworked and underpaid nowadays. The only bad thing about being a coach is if you don't produce in those 2 hours Friday nite you will be looking for a job next year.
This is why my goal is to be the head basketball coach for the Hogs.
I have seen both angles of being a coach and in special education. They are fairly even on the scale of stress level and hours put in to work. And if you ask any coach if they would rather have a team camp all day 2 hours away or spend time all day trying to test a fully non verbal autistic student I promise the choice is easy. Team camp. Now general ed vs a coaches hours/pay is not on the same level but I would say sped and coaching are fairly close.
So you are saying a teacher on 190 contract can be required to work an extra month, 20 days without pay? I'm pretty sure the state teaching regs say teachers have to be compensated for required work days above their contract 190 days.
Quote from: whippersnapper on April 17, 2018, 01:22:56 pm
I have seen both angles of being a coach and in special education. They are fairly even on the scale of stress level and hours put in to work. And if you ask any coach if they would rather have a team camp all day 2 hours away or spend time all day trying to test a fully non verbal autistic student I promise the choice is easy. Team camp. Now general ed vs a coaches hours/pay is not on the same level but I would say sped and coaching are fairly close.
Thank you someone that understands. I forgot to mention the extra testing and phone calls which require setting up a special meeting due she can not talk about a child's situation with out the proper personal attending.
Quote from: RZback on April 17, 2018, 02:00:11 pm
So you are saying a teacher on 190 contract can be required to work an extra month, 20 days without pay? I'm pretty sure the state teaching regs say teachers have to be compensated for required work days above their contract 190 days.
Oh they are not required to do it(wink wink), but if they want to do their job correct they do. Like I said before she does not complain she enjoys her job and chose it over more money. Now on the other hand I whine like a baby. ;D
Quote from: Gray lizard on April 16, 2018, 03:58:03 pm
I am with you. What are we protesting not that it matters.
#occupyArky
#metooBadgers
#theytookourjerrrbs
Pick one... and feel free to add your cause to the protest.
I don't want to disrespect anyone or any educator. I have great respect for them. I just don't think you realize how much time the average coach spends working at his job. I know lots of coaches and is very common to work until 7 oclock on a typical practice day, until 10-12 on a junior high, JV game night and 12-2-3 on a varsity game. Many spend all day on Saturday and most of the day on Sunday preparing for the next game, evaluating the previous game and cleaning up after the kids. This doesn't include being active in the local peewee football program and fundraising, speaking to booster groups, supporting the booster club and studying their craft, meeting with other coaches to continue thier education, camps, clinics and on and on. I haven't even talked about teaching and taking on the same duties every other classroom teacher does.
I don't want to get off a a rant here but Special Ed teacher are normally a cut above regular teacher who just go sit in on a class while some other teacher conducts class on a TV from 5 states away. Every teacher should should take a financial class so in 4-5 years of teaching they know ahead of time that they won't be millionaires.
Quote from: Iknewthemwhen on April 18, 2018, 09:52:12 am
I don't want to disrespect anyone or any educator. I have great respect for them. I just don't think you realize how much time the average coach spends working at his job. I know lots of coaches and is very common to work until 7 oclock on a typical practice day, until 10-12 on a junior high, JV game night and 12-2-3 on a varsity game. Many spend all day on Saturday and most of the day on Sunday preparing for the next game, evaluating the previous game and cleaning up after the kids. This doesn't include being active in the local peewee football program and fundraising, speaking to booster groups, supporting the booster club and studying their craft, meeting with other coaches to continue thier education, camps, clinics and on and on. I haven't even talked about teaching and taking on the same duties every other classroom teacher does.
You are right some coaches do dedicate their life to coaching. I have coached several youth teams(not a job). But I can tell you if I could I would walk away from my current job and I make a good living. I would do it today if I could coach. The pay would not matter. I would find a way to adjust my life style to make it work.
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on April 18, 2018, 09:58:21 am
I don't want to get off a a rant here but Special Ed teacher are normally a cut above regular teacher who just go sit in on a class while some other teacher conducts class on a TV from 5 states away. Every teacher should should take a financial class so in 4-5 years of teaching they know ahead of time that they won't be millionaires.
Most teachers do not just go sit in on a class while the class is instructed by a teacher on a monitor. And while I agree special ed teachers are usually very good and dedicated, I've seen some not so good ones of those as well.
Quote from: Iknewthemwhen on April 18, 2018, 09:52:12 am
I don't want to disrespect anyone or any educator. I have great respect for them. I just don't think you realize how much time the average coach spends working at his job. I know lots of coaches and is very common to work until 7 oclock on a typical practice day, until 10-12 on a junior high, JV game night and 12-2-3 on a varsity game. Many spend all day on Saturday and most of the day on Sunday preparing for the next game, evaluating the previous game and cleaning up after the kids. This doesn't include being active in the local peewee football program and fundraising, speaking to booster groups, supporting the booster club and studying their craft, meeting with other coaches to continue thier education, camps, clinics and on and on. I haven't even talked about teaching and taking on the same duties every other classroom teacher does.
I love sports as much as anyone.... But let's be real. There is a difference in the importance of teaching someone how to throw a football and teaching them science or math. What percentage of these kids playing small town football in Arkansas go on to make money playing the sport? We all know the answer to that question and its insanely little. Many, many more kids from this state will go onto make differences with their job in a technology based field in which their education all started in a classroom somewhere. Yes, coaches with the same tenure as a teacher deserve more than the teacher. But, lets's be real..... 20-25K more is absolutely absurd.
My statement above is why when I see a coach also teaching a core subject like science, math, or an English class I have the highest respect for them. It's not like PE or Health where they almost get a mental break from lesson planning and 3 or 4 straight classes of teaching non stop plus extra grading when they get home. People can make fun of the coach/PE teacher stereotype all they want, but there is a reason they teach those two classes most of the time. It's the hours they put in coaching also. Throw in a coach that teaches for instance in 10th grade science. That coach is absolutely maxed out when it comes to hours they are putting in between teaching and coaching. That is an instance I can see their pay being much higher.
So you don't think coaches should be paid a reasonable wage for the hours they spend? I see where coaches claim not to make $2-3 an hour for time spent. What happened to minimum wage?
Quote from: beach bum on April 18, 2018, 01:46:48 pm
I love sports as much as anyone.... But let's be real. There is a difference in the importance of teaching someone how to throw a football and teaching them science or math. What percentage of these kids playing small town football in Arkansas go on to make money playing the sport? We all know the answer to that question and its insanely little. Many, many more kids from this state will go onto make differences with their job in a technology based field in which their education all started in a classroom somewhere. Yes, coaches with the same tenure as a teacher deserve more than the teacher. But, lets's be real..... 20-25K more is absolutely absurd.
I absolutely get what you're saying. But think about it this way...if someone says the name of any school in the state the first thing you think about is their athletic program...usually football. For many people that aren't associated with a school, the head football coach is the face of a school. They are seen the most and known by the most people. You want someone that not only wins, but is a positive influence on the community and makes people think of your school in a positive way. As with most things, you get what you pay for. If you want to keep a great coach, you find a way to pay him more money.
This is in no way a knock on regular classroom teachers. Teachers as a whole are grossly underpaid and under appreciated. But most schools would rather let a great classroom teacher walk than a great football coach who helps bring the school notoriety in a positive way.
Quote from: OB11 on April 18, 2018, 01:54:37 pm
I absolutely get what you're saying. But think about it this way...if someone says the name of any school in the state the first thing you think about is their athletic program...usually football. For many people that aren't associated with a school, the head football coach is the face of a school. They are seen the most and known by the most people. You want someone that not only wins, but is a positive influence on the community and makes people think of your school in a positive way. As with most things, you get what you pay for. If you want to keep a great coach, you find a way to pay him more money.
I'm not saying I don't agree, but your argument will not win over very many. Coaches, all of them but particularly assistants spend a lot of time for little money in terms of hourly pay. Coaches don't get tips so I'm shooting for at least minimum wage as an argument. Head coaches who make in the 70's and 80's in a state like Arkansas get them well up above most others faculty. All that notoriety doesn't really support the pay in my mind, the responsibility and the time is a better reason in my mind.
This is in no way a knock on regular classroom teachers. Teachers as a whole are grossly underpaid and under appreciated. But most schools will let a great classroom teacher walk than a great football coach who helps bring the school notoriety in a positive way.
Quote from: Iknewthemwhen on April 18, 2018, 01:59:47 pm
I'm not saying I don't agree, but your argument will not win over very many. Coaches, all of them but particularly assistants spend a lot of time for little money in terms of hourly pay. Coaches don't get tips so I'm shooting for at least minimum wage as an argument. Head coaches who make in the 70's and 80's in a state like Arkansas get them well up above most others faculty. All that notoriety doesn't really support the pay in my mind, the responsibility and the time is a better reason in my mind.
This is in no way a knock on regular classroom teachers. Teachers as a whole are grossly underpaid and under appreciated. But most schools will let a great classroom teacher walk than a great football coach who helps bring the school notoriety in a positive way.
I'm totally on board with you there. The assistants are the ones that put in a lot of the work, get no attention and less pay than the head coach.
I'd bet the overwhelming majority of coaches do it for the love of the game. The money is some compensation but they could make more in another field. In fact I know coaches who stopped coaching and started driving a school bus for the extra money because it helped make ends meet.
Quote from: Iknewthemwhen on April 18, 2018, 01:54:25 pm
So you don't think coaches should be paid a reasonable wage for the hours they spend? I see where coaches claim not to make $2-3 an hour for time spent. What happened to minimum wage?
Do the math....you'll see how unreasonable that statement is.
Why is it unreasonable?
If they were working 48 hours per day, it would be reasonable.
Sports trump academics. No teacher is getting $6.00 a head from each parent to watch their child in Quiz Bowl. There's more money in sports, so coaches are going to get paid more. This isn't any slight to any teacher, it's just the almighty Dollar. School boards, superintendents, heck even mayors love to brag on their affiliated teams. So coaches that win get paid the dollars it takes to keep them there or to get them there.
A few things from an educator who has volunteered to coach.
1. Coaches put in long, long hours, during season mainly.
2. Whenever it's not in season or "critical offseason" (summer football for instance), that time is about the same as any other teacher.
3. A coach can have cake as a schedule. 1st period: Health, 2nd Period: Drivers ED, 3rd Period: Health, 4th Period: PREP (They are required to have one of these still unless they waive it fore more pay), LUNCH, 5th-7th PERIOD: Athletics
Compare that to the teacher who does:
1st Period: Calculus
2nd Period: Pre-Calculus
3rd Period: Algebra II
4th Period: Algebra II
LUNCH
5th Period: Pre-Calculus
6th Period: Algebra II
7th Period: Prep
I make those 3 points to say I don't blame the Arkadelphia teachers at all in this situation, but I still wouldn't join them. I think I make enough money for my job and I'm also pretty laid back.
Also, from my experience, those coaching stipends are easily changed. There are probably restrictions on them, but they seem to change on a whim, so I'm not sure what they are.
I think coaches are paid enough for the most part.
The problem wasn't the change in pay but the fact that the school board acted without notifying the PPC. They called an emergency meeting in the middle of the day when no one else could be there and then only addressed three coaches. They created inequities all along the stipend schedule for everyone who coaches or sponsors a group or club. Most if not all teachers in the district support the coaches getting paid for the work they do in the summer, if anything it's a legal issue for the district to require someone to be responsible for students without being compensated. It could now be a title 9 issue because only one boys sport was affected. As far as the booster club giving any money there is no proof of that but according to the Arkansas Code of Ethics for Teachers, Standard 5, it's not permitted.
Quote from: Almatrackster on April 18, 2018, 09:53:55 pm
Also, from my experience, those coaching stipends are easily changed. There are probably restrictions on them, but they seem to change on a whim, so I'm not sure what they are.
I think coaches are paid enough for the most part.
Sooo from your experience you don't know?
Quote from: beach bum on April 18, 2018, 01:46:48 pm
I love sports as much as anyone.... But let's be real. There is a difference in the importance of teaching someone how to throw a football and teaching them science or math. What percentage of these kids playing small town football in Arkansas go on to make money playing the sport? We all know the answer to that question and its insanely little. Many, many more kids from this state will go onto make differences with their job in a technology based field in which their education all started in a classroom somewhere. Yes, coaches with the same tenure as a teacher deserve more than the teacher. But, lets's be real..... 20-25K more is absolutely absurd.
If you think that is all they are teaching, you have no clue. I'm sure that everyone will agree that their lives were made much better by knowing what osmosis is ::)
This thread is making me understand why Arkansas has maybe 10-15 consistently dominant football programs and according to our state annual report card for schools, 566 schools that got grades of C's, D's and F's. Out of 1050 schools.
Kudos.
I don't know why so many people are upset with the Arkadelphia situation? There are a lot of High School Coaches in NW Arkansas that make much more than Arkadelphia HFC. I don't hear everybody crying about the $ Greenwood pays Rick Jones. When B-Ville was paying over $100K to B. Lunney it was ok. Conway, Cabot, Bryant, etc jobs pay well also. Should we complain about that also? Just not sure why Arkadelphia isn't allowed to pay there HC well also?
I teach 4 AP history classes per day. I coach 7-12 football and softball. I make $2500 TOTAL in stipends. I work 20 plus days in the summer UNPAID. I have a 213 contract. I work seven days a week during football season with a average of 12 per day ( excluding weekends...but I work at least 12 hours per weekend). I grade essays, prepare lectures, and then go to a field house and help conduct practice and weight lifting until 7 every night. I then get to grade homework and essays for about 2 hours a night. I have been doing this for 19 years and I make $53K. I am not telling private business because all one has to do is get on their school website and you can find out what every teacher/admin/ janitor makes who works for a school according to state law. I say all of this to say I knew what I was getting in to when I did it. But what gets my goat is when people get mad because a coach uses whatever leverage they have to make their family better off because others didn't get to do it. My wife taught SPED for years AND coached. Now she teaches drama and art and doesn't coach and makes as much as she did before. The days of coaches having four PE/Health classes are quickly going away. School districts are wanting coaches who can teach and coach because usually the classroom management is better and amazingly coaches can get certain things across to kids that others might not be able to do. Don't be mad that a coach figured out how to be able to secure a little financial security for HIS family. Be glad that someone was able to get a little better off
Quote from: Pat Swilling on April 19, 2018, 08:44:05 am
I don't know why so many people are upset with the Arkadelphia situation? There are a lot of High School Coaches in NW Arkansas that make much more than Arkadelphia HFC. I don't hear everybody crying about the $ Greenwood pays Rick Jones. When B-Ville was paying over $100K to B. Lunney it was ok. Conway, Cabot, Bryant, etc jobs pay well also. Should we complain about that also? Just not sure why Arkadelphia isn't allowed to pay there HC well also?
It's the society we live in. If it ain't fair, then I'm going to cause a ruckus.
I work beside surgeons and doctors who make 500k$ and above. That's life. Some are haves. Some are have nots. Get over yourself and quit your bit*****.
If you want to teach. Be prepared to live penny to penny with the headaches.
If you want to coach. Be prepared to do all the crap that comes with it.
All of you educators can enjoy your summers off, spring break off, thanksgiving off, Christmas off and every other holiday off. With my job, I'll be working. And as a new pup in my profession....I was working nights....Christmas Eve. Christmas Day. Thanksgiving day. Day after. New Years. Kids birthday. Kids first school play. All of them. See how this works? Life ain't fair. Suck it up America. I knew what I was getting into. But I wanted to leave straight from college and know I was about to make GOOD MONEY and work shift work with some days off. It's called choices. No one is getting a violin chorus from me. People gotta go WORK.
Why are so many people complaining about WORK. That's how you live.
I heard some of the badgers football funds are being sent to the student from warren who helped them win the Championship! ;D
Quote from: Str8thug on April 19, 2018, 09:29:04 am
I heard some of the badgers football funds are being sent to the student from warren who helped them win the Championship! ;D
If Warren would have taken care of business the kid on the field wouldn't have mattered
Quote from: purpleswag on April 19, 2018, 10:09:01 am
If Warren would have taken care of business the kid on the field wouldn't have mattered
Best thing said in this thread.
Quote from: Oldman on April 19, 2018, 06:17:42 am
Sooo from your experience you don't know?
Ha, fair. I guess you could say that. I would say it seems that coaching stipends are just up to whatever the school board wants them to be.
Quote from: XFalkonz on April 19, 2018, 08:48:56 am
I teach 4 AP history classes per day. I coach 7-12 football and softball. I make $2500 TOTAL in stipends. I work 20 plus days in the summer UNPAID. I have a 213 contract. I work seven days a week during football season with a average of 12 per day ( excluding weekends...but I work at least 12 hours per weekend). I grade essays, prepare lectures, and then go to a field house and help conduct practice and weight lifting until 7 every night. I then get to grade homework and essays for about 2 hours a night. I have been doing this for 19 years and I make $53K. I am not telling private business because all one has to do is get on their school website and you can find out what every teacher/admin/ janitor makes who works for a school according to state law. I say all of this to say I knew what I was getting in to when I did it. But what gets my goat is when people get mad because a coach uses whatever leverage they have to make their family better off because others didn't get to do it. My wife taught SPED for years AND coached. Now she teaches drama and art and doesn't coach and makes as much as she did before. The days of coaches having four PE/Health classes are quickly going away. School districts are wanting coaches who can teach and coach because usually the classroom management is better and amazingly coaches can get certain things across to kids that others might not be able to do. Don't be mad that a coach figured out how to be able to secure a little financial security for HIS family. Be glad that someone was able to get a little better off
Great!
Hmm, I'm mainly talking football here, and I don't see football coaches in the majority teaching the class load you teach.
Do you think that if Arkadelphia teachers are protesting this, they are in the wrong? Aren't they just using their own leverage to make the situation better for themselves?
Quote from: XFalkonz on April 19, 2018, 08:48:56 am
I teach 4 AP history classes per day. I coach 7-12 football and softball. I make $2500 TOTAL in stipends. I work 20 plus days in the summer UNPAID. I have a 213 contract. I work seven days a week during football season with a average of 12 per day ( excluding weekends...but I work at least 12 hours per weekend). I grade essays, prepare lectures, and then go to a field house and help conduct practice and weight lifting until 7 every night. I then get to grade homework and essays for about 2 hours a night. I have been doing this for 19 years and I make $53K. I am not telling private business because all one has to do is get on their school website and you can find out what every teacher/admin/ janitor makes who works for a school according to state law. I say all of this to say I knew what I was getting in to when I did it. But what gets my goat is when people get mad because a coach uses whatever leverage they have to make their family better off because others didn’t get to do it. My wife taught SPED for years AND coached. Now she teaches drama and art and doesn’t coach and makes as much as she did before. The days of coaches having four PE/Health classes are quickly going away. School districts are wanting coaches who can teach and coach because usually the classroom management is better and amazingly coaches can get certain things across to kids that others might not be able to do. Don’t be mad that a coach figured out how to be able to secure a little financial security for HIS family. Be glad that someone was able to get a little better off
Amen
Quote from: Almatrackster on April 19, 2018, 10:46:00 am
Great!
Hmm, I'm mainly talking football here, and I don't see football coaches in the majority teaching the class load you teach.
Do you think that if Arkadelphia teachers are protesting this, they are in the wrong? Aren't they just using their own leverage to make the situation better for themselves?
The question I have is hAve is that is the coach being compensated for his teaching work or for his extra-curricular activity work? Is his base teaching salary going up or his stipend going up? As coaches, we are reminded by academic admins that we are compensated for our academic work AND our extra-curricular work is a separate salary. If he is getting a raise in his teaching salary instead of his extra-curricular stipends then yes they have a right to be upset. If he is getting a boost to his extra-curricular stipend then no they don't have a protest
The best teacher for me in HS was my position coach. Why? because he didn't take any BS from me because I was an athlete. Quite the opposite, his expectations were higher than mine and he made me do my best work in class or it was gonna be ugly at practice every afternoon
I did the math for the ex wife one time. Adding in the extra time she worked and subtracting all the time she got off her hourly wage was around $25. Everyone needs to keep in mind that some people are better at planning/preparing than others and don't have to work much or any at all outside the planning period given to them by the district.
Quote from: cuckoobird on April 19, 2018, 12:22:26 pm
I did the math for the ex wife one time. Adding in the extra time she worked and subtracting all the time she got off her hourly wage was around $25. Everyone needs to keep in mind that some people are better at planning/preparing than others and don’t have to work much or any at all outside the planning period given to them by the district.
She has to be pretty smart.
Quote from: XFalkonz on April 19, 2018, 11:01:24 am
The question I have is hAve is that is the coach being compensated for his teaching work or for his extra-curricular activity work? Is his base teaching salary going up or his stipend going up? As coaches, we are reminded by academic admins that we are compensated for our academic work AND our extra-curricular work is a separate salary. If he is getting a raise in his teaching salary instead of his extra-curricular stipends then yes they have a right to be upset. If he is getting a boost to his extra-curricular stipend then no they don't have a protest
But that's the crux of it. The extra curricular work. The stipends. The "Additional Duties As Needed".
I think it comes back to the fact again that many coaches don't take the same teaching load as you do. You would probably deserve this pay increase and perhaps Coach Eldridge does, but what if his job is basically PE, health, and then football in season?
What if a teacher at Arkadelphia feels that his leverage for his extra time and more money isn't justified? And if it is justified, then why aren't their additional duties as a teacher compensated proportionately?
Good luck defending your title. 7AAAA rough league
I don't see the majority of coaches getting "cake" schedules. Yes, some do and those are mostly Head Coaches who are often AD as well. Most of the assistants are teaching full schedules and then working a massive number of hours as a coach. Most also coach more than one sport and have off season and summer programs to worry about. As in most things a few coaches who get the gravy make a bad impression on all coaches. Most coaches are also good classroom teachers teaching core subjects all day and then getting a few bucks an hour for another 30+ hours a week for most of the year. Then are called bums if they don't win a championship.
Quote from: RZback on April 23, 2018, 10:36:54 am
I don't see the majority of coaches getting "cake" schedules. Yes, some do and those are mostly Head Coaches who are often AD as well. Most of the assistants are teaching full schedules and then working a massive number of hours as a coach. Most also coach more than one sport and have off season and summer programs to worry about. As in most things a few coaches who get the gravy make a bad impression on all coaches. Most coaches are also good classroom teachers teaching core subjects all day and then getting a few bucks an hour for another 30+ hours a week for most of the year. Then are called bums if they don't win a championship.
The matter being that we are talking about the head coach here.
OH! Seemed like a lot of the talk was coaches in general. As for the HC no body made the district give them all raises. Eldridge could be at Conway today.
Quote from: beach bum on April 18, 2018, 01:46:48 pm
I love sports as much as anyone.... But let's be real. There is a difference in the importance of teaching someone how to throw a football and teaching them science or math. What percentage of these kids playing small town football in Arkansas go on to make money playing the sport? We all know the answer to that question and its insanely little. Many, many more kids from this state will go onto make differences with their job in a technology based field in which their education all started in a classroom somewhere. Yes, coaches with the same tenure as a teacher deserve more than the teacher. But, lets's be real..... 20-25K more is absolutely absurd.
How many classroom teachers do you think would give up their summer to go to work every day for an extended 50 days. That's going from a 190 to 240 contract does. Yes they do work now during the summer but getting like 6 days of pd is not the same as working all but two dead weeks. I have talked to several teachers about it and not one even hesitated in saying there is no way they would, the school can keep their money. Now add in all the other days, weekends, other duties, all the things that have been mentioned. Most schools are ghost towns 30 min after the bell rings. Guess who is still there, coaches. They coach, wait for kids to get picked up by late rides, drive kids home, etc. Most have a second sport as well so they get to do this year round. The Arkadelphia coaches are getting paid for the days that they work. Now for that English or math teacher, last I checked our state wasn't just killing it in education nationally. They keep having to lower the praxis scores just so we can get college graduates to be able to pass so they can teach.
Quote from: scrapman on April 23, 2018, 10:12:58 pm
How many classroom teachers do you think would give up their summer to go to work every day for an extended 50 days. That's going from a 190 to 240 contract does. Yes they do work now during the summer but getting like 6 days of pd is not the same as working all but two dead weeks. I have talked to several teachers about it and not one even hesitated in saying there is no way they would, the school can keep their money. Now add in all the other days, weekends, other duties, all the things that have been mentioned. Most schools are ghost towns 30 min after the bell rings. Guess who is still there, coaches. They coach, wait for kids to get picked up by late rides, drive kids home, etc. Most have a second sport as well so they get to do this year round. The Arkadelphia coaches are getting paid for the days that they work. Now for that English or math teacher, last I checked our state wasn't just killing it in education nationally. They keep having to lower the praxis scores just so we can get college graduates to be able to pass so they can teach.
What? Do you think a head football coach would trade their schedule with a math or English teacher schedule?
I subbed for 2 years before getting into education, and I was ecstatic any time I had a head coach. Heck they don't even always get subs for coaches.
I think coaches are fairly compensated, but I don't think it is petty for teachers to protest a head coach getting a huge stipend plus his assistants. If that is petty, then how petty is it to go accept a high school head coaching job and make those kids think you are going to be their coach, only to go back on your word for leverage?
A coach's time is talked about ad naseum here and I know about it. My father was one, my uncle is one, and I volunteered for two years as one (track and football).
I did spend some extraordinary hours, but I also taught a full load of math since I was just volunteering. This was by my own choice, so I never complained.
That said, even at small schools, with coaches who have to coach two or three sports (I've only worked at small schools), they sacrifice their summers, but their school year...in season for their sports takes a lot of time, although their 'secondary' sport really never takes too much time, unless they are football/basketball (rare, but can happen). Offseason for them, though? They get their deserved break. Leave right when the bell rings (as is claimed most teachers do in this thread).
During season? Any student will tell you the best time to have a coach for health or history is during their season. Where do you think their time is devoted?
There are coaches out there with pretty easy schedules when it comes to being a classroom teacher but there are plenty that spend enough time between teaching class, preparation and then athletics to being doing two 40 hour weeks.
Quote from: Iknewthemwhen on April 24, 2018, 02:13:04 pm
There are coaches out there with pretty easy schedules when it comes to being a classroom teacher but there are plenty that spend enough time between teaching class, preparation and then athletics to being doing two 40 hour weeks.
True enough. I think for head coaches in football, I wouldn't say plenty, though.
Well probably not at the big schools, but I think at smaller schools most everybody usually teaches. One guy may be AD but the rest are coaching.
Quote from: Almatrackster on April 24, 2018, 11:25:36 am
What? Do you think a head football coach would trade their schedule with a math or English teacher schedule?
I subbed for 2 years before getting into education, and I was ecstatic any time I had a head coach. Heck they don't even always get subs for coaches.
No I don't. That's why they got into coaching. If a teacher wanted to coach then they should have got into coaching. Coaches don't complain about the money insurance guys make. If they want iinsurance money go sell insurance. If teachers want 225 to 240 day contracts and like 1000-2000 stipend to coach, get after it. Yes teachers are important. Yes they are underpaid. Look at the strikes all over the nation. Are coaches overpaid? No, I don't believe so In my opinion.