Jay Turley comes to Prescott as Middle School Principle. Welcome to the Pack!
But where does Hope go now? Tough situation.
Start fresh. Clean house. Only thing that job opening has going for it is that it will be a 5A job.
Quote from: PapaHog on April 18, 2018, 07:48:22 pm
Start fresh. Clean house. Only thing that job opening has going for it is that it will be a 5A job.
Can HS's "clean house" really anymore?
Cleaning house is not the answer. I have seen the time and effort every coach and student athlete has spent practicing and preparing everyday. For whatever reason it has not translated to game day these last few years. People who are not aware or a part of the situation shouldn't cast blame. Hope will be back soon, mark my words.
Better get someone in soon. Whoever they hire has to hit the hallways. I'm not sure Doug Means is not a bad choice either.
I guarantee they will find the best person for the job. Turley was one of the best in the business. He and every coach at Hope cares and gives all they have for the student athletes. Thats what its all about, not wins and losses.
Papahog, thanks for the kind words. Hope will bounce back. Sure the Bobcats have hit a rough 21 game losing streak. Things happen. I'm sure there's a coach who will come in and win. There's talent in Hope, they have great facilities and they will win again. We thank Coach Turley for his efforts and hard work. He brought us 2 5A South Titles and the end of Camden Fairviews 29 game 5A South winning streak. "Tis the emblem of, the school that we love, may it reign through eternity !!!! Go Bobcats !!!
I wouldn't say they will be back soon. I don't wish anything bad on any coaches, but when you're going 0-fer from jr high to Sr High... it's a TOUGH spot for everybody.
Any news? Is this a hot job or are coaches staying away?
Wonder if any small school HC's will want this situation?
Anyone herd any names associated with this job?
One of the worst jobs in the state. Good luck
Careful, scrap. Don't say anything bad.
Seems to be a lot of late movement in jobs. Turley did well untill the last couple years, what happened. Those 0 for years make people not want to apply. He's a great coach and went 0-10 two years in a row, what the heck would someone want this job for?
Not to mention kids are leaving Hope at a rapid pace and there isn't much talent at all. Bad family support for most kids. Only positive I see is they have facilities nicer than some colleges.
Quote from: scrapdig on April 25, 2018, 08:46:25 am
Not to mention kids are leaving Hope at a rapid pace and there isn't much talent at all. Bad family support for most kids. Only positive I see is they have facilities nicer than some colleges.
There is still a lot of talent in Hope. Where do you suggest the kids are moving? This could be a very respectable job for the right coach.
I could be wrong, but I think that number I heard was like 8 kids started for other schools that live in the district. They are going somewhere. If there's still talent, then someone needs to find a way to get them on the field. Or get another Sosa Agim to move in.
Still talent? JH was worst I've ever seen the last two years in football.
I think the Hope situation is another salvo in what's being called the death of football. Full disclosure, I love football, am a die hard football fan. I'm glued to it Monday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It breaks my heart. The fact is that the number of kids playing high school football has dropped by 12% nationwide over the past 5 years, 17% in Arkansas. Both KTHV and KAIT did segments on it last year. They listed the contributing factors as CTE, competition for the kids interest, financial issues and lack of parity. I think the latter is the main cause of Hope's woes. Look at Arkansas, you have the same 4 or 5 teams at the top every year and the rest are the Washington Generals. It's a classic case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting life support. It used to be a lot of kids played football to be "big man on campus", those days are gone. Look at Hope, how do you get kids enthusiastic with a sales pitch of "You have to work year round, you'll lose 40% of your summer working out in 90 degree heat, you'll get banged up, you'll stay after school until 6 or 7 every day, you'll get up on Saturday at 8am to lift weights, all so you can get the crap kicked out of you Friday night", sign me up! The kids who love football will still be there, what we're losing is the on the fence kids. It's sad but until high school associations develop the NFL model (last goes first, winning attaches a handicap, we're going to even the playing field) the numbers will continue to drop.
Quote from: JessieP on April 25, 2018, 12:35:23 pm
I think the Hope situation is another salvo in what's being called the death of football. Full disclosure, I love football, am a die hard football fan. I'm glued to it Monday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It breaks my heart. The fact is that the number of kids playing high school football has dropped by 12% nationwide over the past 5 years, 17% in Arkansas. Both KTHV and KAIT did segments on it last year. They listed the contributing factors as CTE, competition for the kids interest, financial issues and lack of parity. I think the latter is the main cause of Hope's woes. Look at Arkansas, you have the same 4 or 5 teams at the top every year and the rest are the Washington Generals. It's a classic case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting life support. It used to be a lot of kids played football to be "big man on campus", those days are gone. Look at Hope, how do you get kids enthusiastic with a sales pitch of "You have to work year round, you'll lose 40% of your summer working out in 90 degree heat, you'll get banged up, you'll stay after school until 6 or 7 every day, you'll get up on Saturday at 8am to lift weights all so you can get the crap kicked out of you Friday night", sign me up! The kids who love football will still be there, what we're losing is the on the fence kids. It's sad but until high school associations develop the NFL model (last goes first, winning attaches a handicap, we're going to even the playing field) the numbers will continue to drop.
This is spot on. Football is in serious trouble. Basketball is on the rise with popularity with kids. Spring and summer football has killed HS football in Arkansas.
Quote from: PapaHog on April 25, 2018, 12:03:57 pm
I could be wrong, but I think that number I heard was like 8 kids started for other schools that live in the district. They are going somewhere. If there's still talent, then someone needs to find a way to get them on the field. Or get another Sosa Agim to move in.
Hope isn't a town where you'll find 8 kids playing at other schools. You might have 1-2 were the family actually relocates. The talent is there but the losing mentality has ruined Hope football. The new coach would have to hit the hallways.
Quote from: scrapdig on April 25, 2018, 02:23:28 pm
This is spot on. Football is in serious trouble. Basketball is on the rise with popularity with kids. Spring and summer football has killed HS football in Arkansas.
I do find some truth in this but it is more credited to the kids feeling entitled.
Football is a tough sport to win in. Those that do have to work hard and devote the time and effort. Society doesn't do a great job of teaching that in a lot of places. You know the everybody needs to get a trophy mentality. Oh, I have to get a hair cut tomorrow and can't come to practice.
Quote from: JessieP on April 25, 2018, 12:35:23 pm
I think the Hope situation is another salvo in what's being called the death of football. Full disclosure, I love football, am a die hard football fan. I'm glued to it Monday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It breaks my heart. The fact is that the number of kids playing high school football has dropped by 12% nationwide over the past 5 years, 17% in Arkansas. Both KTHV and KAIT did segments on it last year. They listed the contributing factors as CTE, competition for the kids interest, financial issues and lack of parity. I think the latter is the main cause of Hope's woes. Look at Arkansas, you have the same 4 or 5 teams at the top every year and the rest are the Washington Generals. It's a classic case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting life support.
It's sad but until high school associations develop the NFL model (last goes first, winning attaches a handicap, we're going to even the playing field) the numbers will continue to drop.
Sometimes I am glad to be old and to have played when we didn't know any better :)
How many kids are playing at Spring Hill and Lafayette County that are from Hope. I'm willing to bet those numbers are higher than 1 or 2.
Quote from: Overdahill on April 25, 2018, 06:09:08 pm
Quote from: JessieP on April 25, 2018, 12:35:23 pm
I think the Hope situation is another salvo in what's being called the death of football. Full disclosure, I love football, am a die hard football fan. I'm glued to it Monday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It breaks my heart. The fact is that the number of kids playing high school football has dropped by 12% nationwide over the past 5 years, 17% in Arkansas. Both KTHV and KAIT did segments on it last year. They listed the contributing factors as CTE, competition for the kids interest, financial issues and lack of parity. I think the latter is the main cause of Hope's woes. Look at Arkansas, you have the same 4 or 5 teams at the top every year and the rest are the Washington Generals. It's a classic case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting life support.
It's sad but until high school associations develop the NFL model (last goes first, winning attaches a handicap, we're going to even the playing field) the numbers will continue to drop.
Sometimes I am glad to be old and to have played when we didn't know any better :)
[/b][/b]
Overdahill nailed it! Exactly! Back when we played, football was the undisputed king. If you don't believe me ask the voices in my head. CTE my butt, I could post pictures showing how fun it was back in the day, if I could only remember where and when I played.
Quote from: JessieP on April 25, 2018, 07:42:14 pm
[/b][/b]
Overdahill nailed it! Exactly! Back when we played, football was the undisputed king. If you don't believe me ask the voices in my head. CTE my butt, I could post pictures showing how fun it was back in the day, if I could only remember where and when I played.
that's why they call him Jesse the Body and not Jesse the Brain :D
Quote from: PapaHog on April 25, 2018, 07:32:04 pm
How many kids are playing at Spring Hill and Lafayette County that are from Hope. I'm willing to bet those numbers are higher than 1 or 2.
That would mean these kids are leaving a 5A losing program to only commute and join 2A losing programs. Football is tough here in Southwest Arkansas. I have seen Hope play in years past and there is still a lot of talent at that school. With a few wins the kids roaming the halls will be back on the field.
Quote from: PapaHog on April 25, 2018, 07:32:04 pm
How many kids are playing at Spring Hill and Lafayette County that are from Hope. I'm willing to bet those numbers are higher than 1 or 2.
I'll make that bet. Be specific and name me 2 players on the Lafayette County Cougar football team from Hope ???. No one from Hope is driving 28 miles to Stamps to play 2A Football. I'll give you the push on Sprig Hill though. Spring Hill is 6 miles from HHS and some Hope kids have always went there.
As for Hope being the worst job in the State, that's not true. That's your personal opinion and your kick at a 1st time ever 0-21 streak at Hope. The right coach and player turnout and things will change. I have faith it will return.
Anybody on staff that might get moved up?
Quote from: Hoghead2 on April 26, 2018, 12:10:44 pm
I'll make that bet. Be specific and name me 2 players on the Lafayette County Cougar football team from Hope ???. No one from Hope is driving 28 miles to Stamps to play 2A Football. I'll give you the push on Sprig Hill though. Spring Hill is 6 miles from HHS and some Hope kids have always went there.
As for Hope being the worst job in the State, that's not true. That's your personal opinion and your kick at a 1st time ever 0-21 streak at Hope. The right coach and player turnout and things will change. I have faith it will return.
They should move up the guy that has been coaching pee wee all these years up. He seems to get kids out and does a good job.
Quote from: scrapdig on April 26, 2018, 12:28:39 pm
They should move up the guy that has been coaching pee wee all these years up. He seems to get kids out and does a good job.
I'm sure he'll get a interview along with you.
What about Jonathon Turner or Coach Brown at Nashville. They are both ex-Bobcats??
Quote from: OleFBLover on April 26, 2018, 09:11:39 pm
What about Jonathon Turner or Coach Brown at Nashville. They are both ex-Bobcats??
Wonder if Brown would get back in coaching for this job. Don't know if it would be worth it with Hope's condition.
Quote from: OleFBLover on April 26, 2018, 09:11:39 pm
What about Jonathon Turner or Coach Brown at Nashville. They are both ex-Bobcats??
Coach Turner was my coach his last year with Arkansas High School. He would be great a candidate for this job and during that time he was very excited about returning to Hope.
Quote from: Hoghead2 on April 26, 2018, 05:25:53 pm
I'm sure he'll get a interview along with you.
Funny thing is he would do a better job than anybody you are gonna bring in.
Quote from: scrapdig on April 27, 2018, 10:31:15 am
Funny thing is he would do a better job than anybody you are gonna bring in.
I can't bring in anyone. So your point is moot. Nice try.
Quote from: scrapdig on April 25, 2018, 02:23:28 pm
This is spot on. Football is in serious trouble. Basketball is on the rise with popularity with kids. Spring and summer football has killed HS football in Arkansas.
I think there's a lot of truth in the last sentence. Football coaches have placed a larger emphasis on spring and summer football (and they have to in order to be competitive in the fall anymore), and I think some kids just get burned out. It's really going this way with all of the 3 major sports - kids are almost being forced to specialize in a particular sport because they all go pretty much year-round now.
Problem is Football is the most physically demanding sport of the 3 major, FB, BA, BB. So kids take an easier route. Football just wears them out, but if you don't train year round its becoming harder to compete
Committee has picked 2 to interview.
Any names?
Sorry 3 names. Paschal, King, and Turner.
Where are Paschal and King from?
King is at foreman and paschal is maybe at Wynne
Quote from: AirWarren on May 03, 2018, 05:56:19 pm
VP?
Heard from a reliable source that Paschal got a phone call from the Supt, they are old friends but he's definitely not interested in this job
Quote from: titan33 on May 03, 2018, 07:37:19 pm
Heard from a reliable source that Paschal got a phone call from the Supt, they are old friends but he's definitely not interested in this job
I wouldn't imagine.
Where is Turner now?
Turner is a Coordinator at Ashdown
OC at Ashdown I believe
I could see Van Pascal being interviewed if that is true. But an OC at a school who always under achieves, and a Head coach from a small school with arguably one of the best athletes in the state?
Why would VP interview for this job and leave Wynne???
Paschal would be crazy to move from Wynne to Hope. For the other two mentioned that's a move up the food chain even though it looks like a tough situation right now.
I hear Paschal has withdrawn his name and another name maybe in: it is unclear if King is interviewing or if its a guy named Sanders, that i know nothing about. But Turner is still in it
Paschal LOL. That guy gets around
Quote from: youhavenoidea on May 04, 2018, 08:47:05 am
OC at Ashdown I believe
LOL had 3 D1 players and was still inept at times.
Wonder how spring ball is going?
word on the street is that it was offered to King....
Nothing against King but out of 12 apps only 2 got a shot at interview..I know one that should've gotten a shot but that's the system and how it works in Arkansas.
King turns it down
Is this a fact? I thought King was a done deal?
I guess we will see as soon as there is a school board meeting, if it's fact or not.
Can't believe there is anyone out there that would want this job.
Y not? Pay is super good and the athletes will cycle back for someone who works hard
There is always somebody who will accept a job. Pathway to moving up the coaching ladder. If coach King did turn the job down I'm sure he had a good reason.
Quote from: GettingStarted on May 08, 2018, 09:52:53 am
There is always somebody who will accept a job. Pathway to moving up the coaching ladder. If coach King did turn the job down I'm sure he had a good reason.
He has the majority of his state title team back at Foreman next year.... that would be hard to walk away from.
Quote from: Rida4Life on May 08, 2018, 10:55:48 am
He has the majority of his state title team back at Foreman next year.... that would be hard to walk away from.
Does he still have the reason they won the state title or was he a senior?
Quote from: purpleswag on May 08, 2018, 11:09:29 am
Does he still have the reason they won the state title or was he a senior?
Still has him
Turner is your new HEAD BOBCAT
Quote from: dougmeans on May 08, 2018, 08:58:02 am
Y not? Pay is super good and the athletes will cycle back for someone who works hard
Guess you haven't been to Hope schools lately or their games
Quote from: WorkOrder on May 08, 2018, 11:29:34 am
Turner is your new HEAD BOBCAT
Who is Turner? Good luck sir
Congrats Coach Turner!
Quote from: scrapdig on May 08, 2018, 02:42:22 pm
Who is Turner? Good luck sir
Ashdown OC, he has Hope connections.
Quote from: Hoghead2 on May 09, 2018, 04:24:16 pm
Ashdown OC, he has Hope connections.
Good Luck, Hoghead!
It will be a miracle if they win a game. Good luck
Quote from: scrapdig on May 10, 2018, 09:38:46 am
It will be a miracle if they win a game. Good luck
why dont you go crawl back in your basement! Im not even fom Hope but you are so NEGATIVE leave them alone not everyone can live in the greatest city of Nashville!
Quote from: Hogman2018 on May 10, 2018, 10:19:24 am
why dont you go crawl back in your basement! Im not even fom Hope but you are so NEGATIVE leave them alone not everyone can live in the greatest city of Nashville!
Ha thankfully I don't live there. I've just never seen anything like I'm seeing in Hope right now. Worst decline I've seen from a school in the last 2 years. Sorry call it like I see it
He's not wrong though. This conference is pretty bad though, so maybe they can sneak one in.
Quote from: scrapdig on May 10, 2018, 09:38:46 am
It will be a miracle if they win a game. Good luck
Dude, you're throwing a lot of shade on Hope. Worst Job in the State, Hire the Pee Wee coach, It'll take a miracle for Hope to win a game. I see the Nashville point of view you're pushing and accept it. It's your opinion. I say we meet at the Nashville vs Hope game under the South End Zone scoreboard in September. Good luck to the Scappers.
Quote from: scrapdig on May 10, 2018, 12:27:09 pm
Ha thankfully I don't live there. I've just never seen anything like I'm seeing in Hope right now. Worst decline I've seen from a school in the last 2 years. Sorry call it like I see it
So it's evident you haven't seen or heard of Paragould, Green County Tech, Sheridan or Waldron ? Yes Hope has hit a tough patch on a 21 game losing streak. But Waldron lost 40 straight between 2011 and 2015. We won't bring up Paragould and Greene County Tech 0-10ing and 1-9ing it away for decades in the same city. Sheridan is the same way. So Hope isn't this wasteland of talent. Dare I say how the old North Pulaski Falcons used to hit the 0-10 lottery every year. The Bobcats will be back
Quote from: Hoghead2 on May 11, 2018, 08:14:52 am
So it's evident you haven't seen or heard of Paragould, Green County Tech, Sheridan or Waldron ? Yes Hope has hit a tough patch on a 21 game losing streak. But Waldron lost 40 straight between 2011 and 2015. We won't bring up Paragould and Greene County Tech 0-10ing and 1-9ing it away for decades in the same city. Sheridan is the same way. So Hope isn't this wasteland of talent. Dare I say how the old North Pulaski Falcons used to hit the 0-10 lottery every year. The Bobcats will be back
Not even talking about the losing streak. It's the entire schools culture. Girls athletics are the worst I've evever seen it there as well as the boys. You are gonna have to hire a couple of HOPE guys who have pride in the school if anything is ever gonna change.
Scrapdig, you're behind. There's Hope Alumni on the staff. The new Head Coach is a former Bobcat. Continue to throw your Scrapper shade. Hey did you find out who those 8 players from Hope were who played for Lafayette County ? Or is that a alternative fact ?
Oh, but you got to het former players to straighten a program out.
Quote from: Hoghead2 on May 11, 2018, 01:35:58 pm
Scrapdig, you're behind. There's Hope Alumni on the staff. The new Head Coach is a former Bobcat. Continue to throw your Scrapper shade. Hey did you find out who those 8 players from Hope were who played for Lafayette County ? Or is that a alternative fact ?
No clue what you are talking about
Quote from: Iknewthemwhen on May 11, 2018, 03:16:53 pm
Oh, but you got to het former players to straighten a program out.
Sorry but odds are nobody anygood is gonna go coach Hope so you better get someone from Hope.
Quote from: scrapdig on May 11, 2018, 04:38:48 pm
Sorry but odds are nobody anygood is gonna go coach Hope so you better get so
meone from Hope.
You have a good day and keep your fridge fresh with that trashy hateraid
A really good hire. Coach Turner can turn things right given time. Go Cats, Go.
what is his offense and defense formation
Quote from: tmycjy on May 13, 2018, 08:14:21 pm
what is his offense and defense formation
No coach should come in without seeing the team and say what offense or defense he is gonna run. A good coach will adapt his offense/defense to his players and not adapt his players to his offense/defense.
A good coach can take whatever O/D he is knowledgable in and tweak that defense to fit his kids. Changing O/D year in and out to adapt to the kids is a bad plan. Kids need consistency in the scheme and from the coaches.
Coach Turner must make fixing the JH a top priority.
Quote from: footballfan-tastic on May 14, 2018, 06:37:39 pm
A good coach can take whatever O/D he is knowledgable in and tweak that defense to fit his kids. Changing O/D year in and out to adapt to the kids is a bad plan. Kids need consistency in the scheme and from the coaches.
So if you have Ryan Mallett in HS and Matt Jones is JH you are gonna keep a similar offense?
Quote from: scrapdig on May 15, 2018, 01:01:00 pm
So if you have Ryan Mallett in HS and Matt Jones is JH you are gonna keep a similar offense?
Probably not. Jones is ineligible.
Yeah I think a good coach can keep many of the same aspects of an offense or defense and tweak it to fit his kids, he doesn't have to run a completely different system. Obviously different coaches are going to run different systems and use kids differently. My point is that most offenses are adaptable to some degree to accommadate players. A good example is teams that loose a star QB or RB mid season cannot typically scrap an offense and start all over, instead they tweak it to the strenghts of their players. More or less passing/running according to the qB skills, Jones a great runner a ok passer, Mallet not real mobile but a very good arm. If they would have played in the same systems under the same coaches I'm sure there would have been similar aspects and alot of play calling that allowed more playaction run opportunities for one and more in the pocket for the other. You don't have to scrap the whole scheme. In high school, since you don't get to recruit according to scheme a coach needs a system he can tweak from year to year and perhaps in the middle of a season because of an injury, you cannot have offense of the week or season and keep your kids consistent. IMO.
Quote from: footballfan-tastic on May 14, 2018, 06:37:39 pm
A good coach can take whatever O/D he is knowledgable in and tweak that defense to fit his kids. Changing O/D year in and out to adapt to the kids is a bad plan. Kids need consistency in the scheme and from the coaches.
True, a coach tweaking his O/D to fit his kids is paramount. Unfortunately sometimes the X's and O's doesn't match up with his Johnny and Joe's. Ask GCT, Paragould or Van Buren.
Quote from: Hoghead2 on May 16, 2018, 11:56:39 am
True, a coach tweaking his O/D to fit his kids is paramount. Unfortunately sometimes the X's and O's doesn't match up with his Johnny and Joe's. Ask GCT, Paragould or Van Buren.
Very true
Quote from: Hoghead2 on May 16, 2018, 11:56:39 am
True, a coach tweaking his O/D to fit his kids is paramount. Unfortunately sometimes the X's and O's doesn't match up with his Johnny and Joe's. Ask GCT, Paragould or Van Buren.
This is why you should become knowledgable in a system that is very adaptable to a variety of talent level. You cannot change offense every year to fit talent, you can tweak it to make it the best it can be with the talent you have. Imagine if you have a great QB and you go spread, kid moves the next year and you don't have a decent throwing qb, so you go I and run lots of power game. Next year that kid graduates and you get a move in that shows tremendous potential to develop into a multi-skilled QB. So year one you stick with the I, year two you go to the spread, year three you add in a lot of QB run, pass options and RPO type plays. Next year you are again without a qB because of graduation and you didn't have any skilled kids to train so you are back to the I or maybe dead T. What a mess. Take what you know and tweak the heck out of it, if you have a balanced approach you can do this.
Look at all the successful teams year in & year out, they don't change their offense & defense. You get good at what you know & you teach it to your kids from 7th grade on. You can tweak it a little bit but those who change their systems to fit athletes every couple of years usually don't have much success. Stick with with what you know & get great at it. That's how you win!!!
Quote from: FootballFever on May 17, 2018, 10:11:23 am
Look at all the successful teams year in & year out, they don't change their offense & defense. You get good at what you know & you teach it to your kids from 7th grade on. You can tweak it a little bit but those who change their systems to fit athletes every couple of years usually don't have much success. Stick with with what you know & get great at it. That's how you win!!!
So if you run the wishbone and you have a pro style QB you still gonna run the Bone? That's lazy coaching. You adapt your scheme to fit your players in High School since you can't recruit players to your style.
Quote from: DQLeopard on May 17, 2018, 11:56:58 am
So if you run the wishbone and you have a pro style QB you still gonna run the Bone? That's lazy coaching. You adapt your scheme to fit your players in High School since you can't recruit players to your style.
Wrong Wrong Wrong. You would do that if your ONLY interest was serving the QB (likely your son), you set up a system and train your players to execute that system. If you change everything to suit one player and said player tears an acl week 2 your season is over. If you run your system and have indoctrinated your players, if your qb goes down you point to the next one on the bench and keep playing. A coaches job is to run the system he knows best. You NEVER change it up to suit one player, that is guaranteed failure.
Quote from: JessieP on May 17, 2018, 12:04:42 pm
Wrong Wrong Wrong. You would do that if your ONLY interest was serving the QB (likely your son), you set up a system and train your players to execute that system. If you change everything to suit one player and said player tears an acl week 2 your season is over. If you run your system and have indoctrinated your players, if your qb goes down you point to the next one on the bench and keep playing. A coaches job is to run the system he knows best. You NEVER change it up to suit one player, that is guaranteed failure.
Bill Belichick would strongly disagree. By your logic you are just gonna run the same system and plays over and over for years. A coaches job is to not run the system he knows best. A coaches job is to get the most out of his players and win games. If that requires changing your system then you do it. Have you seen coaches switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 every few years to fit their teams needs?
Quote from: JessieP on May 17, 2018, 12:04:42 pm
Wrong Wrong Wrong. You would do that if your ONLY interest was serving the QB (likely your son), you set up a system and train your players to execute that system. If you change everything to suit one player and said player tears an acl week 2 your season is over. If you run your system and have indoctrinated your players, if your qb goes down you point to the next one on the bench and keep playing. A coaches job is to run the system he knows best. You NEVER change it up to suit one player, that is guaranteed failure.
This is really caveman thinking here. A coaches job is to run the system he knows best? You NEVER change it up to suit one player? If I am a passing spread team and I have DMAC im probably all the sudden gonna change some stuff up and not pass as much. You adapt your scheme to your players not your players to your scheme. Same goes for basketball.
Different philosophies. Both can be successful. I don't think a team should be changing their whole philosophy every year or anything like that. But I do think tweaks need to be made often. I actually see this being more of a problem in basketball.
Quote from: DQLeopard on May 17, 2018, 12:15:36 pm
Bill Belichick would strongly disagree. By your logic you are just gonna run the same system and plays over and over for years. A coaches job is to not run the system he knows best. A coaches job is to get the most out of his players and win games. If that requires changing your system then you do it. Have you seen coaches switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 every few years to fit their teams needs?
Horrible example, horrible. Switching from a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 is like an Orthopedic surgeon switching from an acl to an mcl repair. Switching from a wishbone to pro-style offense would be like asking the Orthopedic surgeon to switch from acl surgery to open heart surgery. In theory they are supposed to have a basic knowledge of both but it's a massive change. It would take far longer to master then you could do in one season to placate a standout player.
Quote from: JessieP on May 17, 2018, 01:06:28 pm
Horrible example, horrible. Switching from a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 is like an Orthopedic surgeon switching from an acl to an mcl repair. Switching from a wishbone to pro-style offense would be like asking the Orthopedic surgeon to switch from acl surgery to open heart surgery. In theory they are supposed to have a basic knowledge of both but it's a massive change. It would take far longer to master then you could do in one season to placate a standout player.
Pretty good analogy. I guess I just like to see a team who can go under center and shotgun and tweak things year in and year out based on players. It drives me crazy to watch these teams who refuse to take a snap under center or refuse to go shotgun every now and then.
Quote from: JessieP on May 17, 2018, 01:06:28 pm
Horrible example, horrible. Switching from a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 is like an Orthopedic surgeon switching from an acl to an mcl repair. Switching from a wishbone to pro-style offense would be like asking the Orthopedic surgeon to switch from acl surgery to open heart surgery. In theory they are supposed to have a basic knowledge of both but it's a massive change. It would take far longer to master then you could do in one season to placate a standout player.
You still keep running those same plays year end and year out and not adapting coach. I'm sure you are very mediocre.
It's not lazy coaching, it's running & teaching what you know & believe in. Successful programs don't change schemes to fit players. They teach their players their scheme & coach them to be good at it. I will say it again, look at successful programs in this state & they DO NOT change their schemes every couple of years. They teach their schemes & they coach their kids up to be good at it!
Pro style vs wish bone is a bad analogy and probably too big of a change yea. I am mainly talking about tweaking things here and there. Here are the most important factors I think a coach can have starting with most important:
1. Realtionships with players
2. Weight program/Nutrition
3. Scheme
Quote from: FootballFever on May 17, 2018, 02:12:40 pm
It's not lazy coaching, it's running & teaching what you know & believe in. Successful programs don't change schemes to fit players. They teach their players their scheme & coach them to be good at it. I will say it again, look at successful programs in this state & they DO NOT change their schemes every couple of years. They teach their schemes & they coach their kids up to be good at it!
Bingo! You win the debate. Perfect response. A good coach would never change his philosophy because of a single gifted player. An athlete is an athlete, a good coach will make him adapt to the teams style and prosper.
A good coach doesn't run a system that has no diversity in it to begin with. The system has to be adaptable and the coach has to know how to make that work within his scheme.
Let's look at Georgia Tech. Several years ago, they had Calvin Johnson and Demaryius Thomas at WR...guess what...ran the option!
Quote from: Iknewthemwhen on May 17, 2018, 09:45:21 pm
A good coach doesn't run a system that has no diversity in it to begin with. The system has to be adaptable and the coach has to know how to make that work within his scheme.
Very true
Quote from: RabidWolf on May 17, 2018, 10:02:15 pm
Let's look at Georgia Tech. Several years ago, they had Calvin Johnson and Demaryius Thomas at WR...guess what...ran the option!
IDK about the second one but Calvin Johnson didn't play for Paul Johnson. He was there before with the previous coach that ran the spread
Quote from: RabidWolf on May 17, 2018, 10:02:15 pm
Let's look at Georgia Tech. Several years ago, they had Calvin Johnson and Demaryius Thomas at WR...guess what...ran the option!
He he got those two to go to school there I will never know
Quote from: scrapdig on May 18, 2018, 08:40:38 am
He he got those two to go to school there I will never know
I saw GT play at Duke one of those years. GT still threw the ball deep to their tall athlete wide receiver a couple of times a game out of the option. That combo wreaked havoc on the D
Quote from: JessieP on May 17, 2018, 12:04:42 pm
Wrong Wrong Wrong. You would do that if your ONLY interest was serving the QB (likely your son), you set up a system and train your players to execute that system. If you change everything to suit one player and said player tears an acl week 2 your season is over. If you run your system and have indoctrinated your players, if your qb goes down you point to the next one on the bench and keep playing. A coaches job is to run the system he knows best. You NEVER change it up to suit one player, that is guaranteed failure.
Ken Hatfield agrees with you. He turned away Troy Aikman out of high school because he wouldn't change from an option offense.
Whoops.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on May 18, 2018, 08:48:11 am
Ken Hatfield agrees with you. He turned away Troy Aikman out of high school because he wouldn't change from an option offense.
Whoops.
It depends on the coaches objective. If his objective is to move Heaven and Earth to get one player to the NFL than yes, change it all. If he is comfortable with sacrificing wins and the football experience for every other player on the team than yes, change it all. If a coach wakes up every day and say's "I'm gonna make this kid a superstar, the other 79 kids can kiss my hairy butt, than yes change it up". Troy hated the Oklahoma offense, he has often said the broken ankle was a blessing. UCLA under Donahue ran a straight "under center drop back" pro style offense. Troy prospered at UCLA. UCLA was not an elite program, sure they beat Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl but everyone beat Arkansas in big games. My point is that neither Oklahoma or UCLA changed what they do to placate Troy, my point proven.
If you are a dominant run team is it really that hard to add to your passing game if you get lucky with a super passing QB?
Quote from: footballfan-tastic on May 18, 2018, 12:02:34 pm
If you are a dominant run team is it really that hard to add to your passing game if you get lucky with a super passing QB?
If you're a traditional passing dominant team adding a stud running back is a cherry on top. It adds another dimension, it opens up the offense even more. If you run a triple option or flexbone type offense adding a pure drop back passer is a massive switch. In an offense like Wynne's the pass is an after though, if you do something that rarely it's almost never a go-to option. That door swings both ways, look at PA 2 years ago. They had a running back that was like 5'5, 130lbs. He was very very effective, the offensive scheme spread the defense and opened up huge running lanes. PA's O-line scared no one, GCT would have controlled them at the LOS. In that offense they were world beaters. It's the system much more than the players.
Quote from: JessieP on May 18, 2018, 12:51:44 pm
If you're a traditional passing dominant team adding a stud running back is a cherry on top. It adds another dimension, it opens up the offense even more. If you run a triple option or flexbone type offense adding a pure drop back passer is a massive switch. In an offense like Wynne's the pass is an after though, if you do something that rarely it's almost never a go-to option. That door swings both ways, look at PA 2 years ago. They had a running back that was like 5'5, 130lbs. He was very very effective, the offensive scheme spread the defense and opened up huge running lanes. PA's O-line scared no one, GCT would have controlled them at the LOS. In that offense they were world beaters. It's the system much more than the players.
Was the pass even an after thought when the had Ross Trail a few years ago who played D1 QB? Did they run the same offense with him?
Quote from: scrapdig on May 18, 2018, 01:37:34 pm
Was the pass even an after thought when the had Ross Trail a few years ago who played D1 QB? Did they run the same offense with him?
No they did not.
A run dominant offense only has to make sure they have a playaction pass game off every play series and a little bit of a short game. A pass dominant team, depending on how little run game they have is in trouble if it cannot run the ball at all and the opponent can play defense because they can go to a 3 man rush, play man or combo and double the stud receiver. It really is about diversity, balance for a really good team.
Quote from: scrapdig on May 17, 2018, 01:48:37 pm
You still keep running those same plays year end and year out and not adapting coach. I'm sure you are very mediocre.
PA runs the same plays year end and year out. Nobody in the State has beat them in 4 years. Wynne ran Trap 27 down the 5A East opponents throat forever. Nobody could stop it.
Quote from: Hoghead2 on May 20, 2018, 05:04:55 pm
PA runs the same plays year end and year out. Nobody in the State has beat them in 4 years. Wynne ran Trap 27 down the 5A East opponents throat forever. Nobody could stop it.
Some people could stop it, those dastardly orange and black wearing bullies stopped it more often than not. But yes, your point is correct. Why would any coach adjust a system that works.
Quote from: Hoghead2 on May 20, 2018, 05:04:55 pm
PA runs the same plays year end and year out. Nobody in the State has beat them in 4 years. Wynne ran Trap 27 down the 5A East opponents throat forever. Nobody could stop it.
Wrong. PA puts in different plays every year. Sure they keep the same ones too. But if one coach is gonna adapt its Kelley.
Quote from: SCHawg on May 21, 2018, 10:07:29 am
Wrong. PA puts in different plays every year. Sure they keep the same ones too. But if one coach is gonna adapt its Kelley.
Make up your mind LOL ? Sure he adapts. But PA has money plays. Every coach does. If they work and people have trouble stopping it. Coaches will run it down your throat. Washington Redskins vaunted Counter Tre', Oklahoma and the counter option, Wynne and Trap 27. If you can't stop it, get ready it's coming again.
Hey I got a question who is your new head coach and what offense and defense formations dose he run
Some teams will run certain plays regardless of what defense the opponent is playing. This works well until you play against a defense that can stop your favorite plays. Other teams will run certain plays because of the defensive that is being played. If a defensive stacks the LOS to absolutely stop all running plays, they will probably be vulnerable to the pass. Have eight players defending the pass, and even average running teams will have success. This is the PA example JessieP was talking about. Against a three man rush, the "Pocket Rocket" as Steve Sullivan called him, would get the ball up the middle and might not make contact with a defensive player until he was 10-15 yards down the field. With his speed and agility, he turned those first ten yards into TD's.
I'm not sure it is accurate to say that a team like PA has "plays" in the traditional sense of the word. Regardless of the "play" called, what happens after the ball is snapped is based on reads by the QB and receivers. A specific formation may be called based on Kelly's idea of what defense will be played. The "play" may simply be "drop back pass". The actual routes the receivers run depends on the movements in the secondary. On running plays, the OL may simply screen the DL, or push him where he wants to go. The RB then runs wherever the defense ain't. Good teams have size, power and speed. Great teams add a measure of finesse. This is what gives them the balance they need to win. Winners simply take what the other team gives them.
Quote from: tmycjy on May 22, 2018, 11:31:20 am
Hey I got a question who is your new head coach and what offense and defense formations dose he run
Coach Phillip Turner he's a former Hope Bobcat player and Henderson St. Grad. He was the OC at Ashdown. Not sure what O or D he'll run.
Quote from: JessieP on May 18, 2018, 10:40:14 am
It depends on the coaches objective. If his objective is to move Heaven and Earth to get one player to the NFL than yes, change it all. If he is comfortable with sacrificing wins and the football experience for every other player on the team than yes, change it all. If a coach wakes up every day and say's "I'm gonna make this kid a superstar, the other 79 kids can kiss my hairy butt, than yes change it up". Troy hated the Oklahoma offense, he has often said the broken ankle was a blessing. UCLA under Donahue ran a straight "under center drop back" pro style offense. Troy prospered at UCLA. UCLA was not an elite program, sure they beat Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl but everyone beat Arkansas in big games. My point is that neither Oklahoma or UCLA changed what they do to placate Troy, my point proven.
UCLA wasn't a elite program? Compared to Arkansas it is.
Quote from: Hoghead2 on May 22, 2018, 01:54:06 pm
UCLA wasn't a elite program? Compared to Arkansas it is.
That is true. I should have explained better. UCLA of course is an elite program but with Troy they weren't a Fla. St., Miami or Notre Dame (the powerhouses of the 80's). But yes your point is correct, they were/are much more respected than Arkansas.
Quote from: JessieP on May 22, 2018, 07:54:10 pm
That is true. I should have explained better. UCLA of course is an elite program but with Troy they weren't a Fla. St., Miami or Notre Dame (the powerhouses of the 80's). But yes your point is correct, they were/are much more respected than Arkansas.
UCLA of the 80's won 4 PAC-10 Championships, won 7 straight Bowl Games, won 20 out of 24 games with Aikman as Qb and was ranked in the top 10. Let's just say they were decent. LOL