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Are Central Arkansas soccer clubs meeting expectations?

Started by michu, November 20, 2014, 01:45:45 pm

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michu

Quote from: Rey Pygsterio on November 25, 2014, 10:47:51 am
Quote from: Lowguards on November 24, 2014, 08:14:01 pm
In a one-club system the top players make it to the top, and then what? They travel to far away tournaments to play competitive games? Sounds expensive, and exclusive. I'm of the opinion that numbers matter (I do think I differ with a few posters in this regard). I would hate to see a system in place that limits the opportunities for players because their families can't afford to pay (to play).

Amen.
That is why you need corporate support. I hate our pay-to-play system, especially the fact that kids from financially stressed families can't participate. 

We live in Arkansas and unfortunately we have to do some traveling to get an adequate number of quality games. Most classic teams travel out of state 2-3 times per season anyway.

This conversation is exclusive to the kids who desire to play beyond high school. Unfortunately the top tier players are underserved and it's going to take some out of the box thinking to create the right situation for these players.


Laird Williams

November 25, 2014, 12:47:00 pm #51 Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 12:54:38 pm by Laird Williams
We travel anyway. And no one is talking about implementing anything that would discourage kids from playing. On the contrary, we suggest that better enabling our top-tier kids to succeed beyond central Arkansas would have the opposite effect: it would encourage our traveling kids to stay in the game longer - success is fun - and inspire kids coming along behind them. It would attract kids to our game. The beyond high school thing will take care of itself. The more success we can help our kids achieve the longer they will stay in the game. Greater success would be a huge boon to us all.

CAS

Need to expose clubs like BB that charge too much money and overpay coaches that do nothing.

Lowguards

How do we enable our top-tier players to succeed outside of Arkansas?

If a merger is the solution how do the clubs make it happen?


Back in the day LRFC was the only show in town. They had A licensed coaches, teams that competed well at higher level events, and they put quite a few kids in to college programs. But then the detractors started popping up. They disagreed with the system and they left to do their own things. The staff coaches at BB were all once on staff at LRFC. And the guy that brought the Rush club to AR was also a LRFC coach. Is there any way to prevent that from happening again if the local clubs were to merge?

I totally agree with the posts about the importance of success.

Laird Williams

Quote from: CAS on November 25, 2014, 02:10:19 pm
Need to expose clubs like BB that charge too much money and overpay coaches that do nothing.

The Bluebirds entered two teams in our state cup this fall, a U15 girls team and a U16 boys team. Both won state titles. This spring they will enter a U11 girls, U13 girls, U14 girls and a U14 boys team - and each of them have a shot a title. That is pretty good exposure, in its own right, I would say.

All of our clubs do certain things well. Together, we could do even more.

Lowguards, those are the questions of the day and greater minds than mine are at work on it. I hope. Ha.

michu

Quote from: Lowguards on November 25, 2014, 02:45:22 pm
How do we enable our top-tier players to succeed outside of Arkansas?

If a merger is the solution how do the clubs make it happen?


Back in the day LRFC was the only show in town. They had A licensed coaches, teams that competed well at higher level events, and they put quite a few kids in to college programs. But then the detractors started popping up. They disagreed with the system and they left to do their own things. The staff coaches at BB were all once on staff at LRFC. And the guy that brought the Rush club to AR was also a LRFC coach. Is there any way to prevent that from happening again if the local clubs were to merge?

I totally agree with the posts about the importance of success.
Best case scenario is to have a first and second team starting at the classic age groups. These kids need to be training together with flexibility to move between teams. Creating a competitive atmosphere is first step to improving the environment. They need to have quality coaches following a proven curriculum.

The only game in town meant all the talent was playing together. Now we basically have the same size talent pool, but it's split between multiple clubs. AU/LRFC has never had a system in place, so I don't think those coaches left for that reason. Soccer decisions need to be made by soccer people, so those coaches choosing to leave is pretty easy to figure out.   

Lowguards

What does system mean?

What kind of system should a club have in place? And how do parents and players know if it's the "right" system?

If they don't agree with the system should they be allowed to choose another system (club)?

What is a "soccer decision?"

And what qualifies a person to be called a "soccer person?"

Is a parent that pays the bills, and essentially keeps the club afloat, allowed to be called a "soccer person" and make "soccer decisions?"

Was it a lack of "system" that provoked these coaches in to leaving AU/LRFC? Did they take pay cuts in order to put themselves in places where their soccer philosophies could be realized? It's not my intention to comment on the livelihood of others, so I won't answer that. I will ask though, are any of them currently in situations where they make "soccer decisions?" 

Lionheart88

Quote from: Lowguards on November 25, 2014, 02:45:22 pm
How do we enable our top-tier players to succeed outside of Arkansas?

If a merger is the solution how do the clubs make it happen?


Back in the day LRFC was the only show in town. They had A licensed coaches, teams that competed well at higher level events, and they put quite a few kids in to college programs. But then the detractors started popping up. They disagreed with the system and they left to do their own things. The staff coaches at BB were all once on staff at LRFC. And the guy that brought the Rush club to AR was also a LRFC coach. Is there any way to prevent that from happening again if the local clubs were to merge?

I totally agree with the posts about the importance of success.
The only way I could see would be if the ASSA was pushing hard for one club.  I'm not even sure they have the power, but could they refuse to admit a breakaway club to the association, refuse to allow their teams in ASSA-organized competitions, etc?

Lowguards

I think one of the roles of a state association is to grow soccer in their respective state. I think they are in place to facilitate the growth of new soccer clubs and communities in the state. However, I really don't know what I'm talking about.


michu

Quote from: Lowguards on November 25, 2014, 04:39:08 pm
What does system mean?

What kind of system should a club have in place? And how do parents and players know if it's the "right" system?

If they don't agree with the system should they be allowed to choose another system (club)?

What is a "soccer decision?"

And what qualifies a person to be called a "soccer person?"

Is a parent that pays the bills, and essentially keeps the club afloat, allowed to be called a "soccer person" and make "soccer decisions?"

Was it a lack of "system" that provoked these coaches in to leaving AU/LRFC? Did they take pay cuts in order to put themselves in places where their soccer philosophies could be realized? It's not my intention to comment on the livelihood of others, so I won't answer that. I will ask though, are any of them currently in situations where they make "soccer decisions?"
I think all coaches need to be on the same page and what I mean by that is that they need to teach the same playing style. Development curriculum starting at the intro age groups that builds into the high school age groups. Compare it to school. Kids need to complete first grade before moving on to second grade. The development builds each year and by the time a player reaches high school, you hope to have a well rounded player. The club needs to be able to show their ability to move kids from one stage to the next.

If a parent doesn't agree with how a club does things or if they find a club that they feel do things better, then they should absolutely have the right to move. I don't like the idea of moving kids mid-season, but I am sure there can be circumstances that support mid-season moves.

Parents on a board need to be making business decisions, not trying to develop a youth academy system, for example. Coaches need to be developing a clubs program, not parents. Obviously there are going to be some very knowledgeable parents, but in general, any decisions related to the field need to be made by the coaches. It's their job.

Lack of a system is what we see locally. My example will be at the classic level. They simply assign a coach to a team and rely on the coach to handle everything. What are the 8v8 age groups doing to prepare for 11v11. What happens when a group move from one coach to another and the coaches have completely different philosophy's on how to coach and play the game. Are coaches being held accountable? Are they being evaluated? What kind of support is the club giving coaches. Just a few examples.

Clubs around the US are modeling their programs after Europen clubs. I think clubs need to have an outlet for all level players, but it needs to more structured to reach upper levels. 

michu

Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 25, 2014, 05:03:06 pm
Quote from: Lowguards on November 25, 2014, 02:45:22 pm
How do we enable our top-tier players to succeed outside of Arkansas?

If a merger is the solution how do the clubs make it happen?


Back in the day LRFC was the only show in town. They had A licensed coaches, teams that competed well at higher level events, and they put quite a few kids in to college programs. But then the detractors started popping up. They disagreed with the system and they left to do their own things. The staff coaches at BB were all once on staff at LRFC. And the guy that brought the Rush club to AR was also a LRFC coach. Is there any way to prevent that from happening again if the local clubs were to merge?

I totally agree with the posts about the importance of success.
The only way I could see would be if the ASSA was pushing hard for one club.  I'm not even sure they have the power, but could they refuse to admit a breakaway club to the association, refuse to allow their teams in ASSA-organized competitions, etc?
I only see the ASSA making efforts to grow the game, but not much in terms of making it better. If I am wrong, then please share some examples. It seems to be quantity over quality, but hopefully I am wrong.

michu

Quote from: Lowguards on November 25, 2014, 05:09:10 pm
I think one of the roles of a state association is to grow soccer in their respective state. I think they are in place to facilitate the growth of new soccer clubs and communities in the state. However, I really don't know what I'm talking about.
same for me. haha

Lionheart88

November 26, 2014, 10:19:24 am #62 Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 10:21:01 am by Lionheart88
For all the folks who want the club coaches to run the same system top to bottom, doesn't that lock them into a pretty restrictive paradigm?  If a kid get to high school and has never played anything but 4-4-2, because all his club coaches were in lockstep, it could be a rude surprise if his HS coach wants to run 3-5-2 or he's being recruited by a college that mostly plays 4-5-1.  Likewise forcing coaches to play a system that the current class of players may not be best-suited for can't be that beneficial to the kids.  Coaches should always be willing and able to adapt what they want to do to fit the available talent, it seems like having the whole club on one system would prevent that.

(And yes, I know "system" isn't really that simple, there's more to it than formation, but I'm trying to avoid writing an essay from my iPhone)

michu

Tactics can vary within a style of play. I am talking about direct playing styles vs a possession style of play, for example.

Lionheart88

Even there, possession and direct are not opposites so much as tools in a toolbox.  Good players should be able to play possession when that's advantageous but know when to take the shot down field if they get that chance.

LR_Dad

Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 26, 2014, 01:11:09 pm
Even there, possession and direct are not opposites so much as tools in a toolbox.  Good players should be able to play possession when that's advantageous but know when to take the shot down field if they get that chance.

His point is they should have a plan...a philosophy. What he is suggesting is commonplace in all successful clubs.  It's also commonplace in all successful sports programs.  Not just soccer.

michu

Quote from: LR_Dad on November 27, 2014, 09:59:49 am
Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 26, 2014, 01:11:09 pm
Even there, possession and direct are not opposites so much as tools in a toolbox.  Good players should be able to play possession when that's advantageous but know when to take the shot down field if they get that chance.

His point is they should have a plan...a philosophy. What he is suggesting is commonplace in all successful clubs.  It's also commonplace in all successful sports programs.  Not just soccer.
Exactly. Thank you, LR_Dad.

Brownclown

Quote from: Lowguards on November 25, 2014, 02:45:22 pm


If a merger is the solution how do the clubs make it happen?
They disagreed with the system and they left to do their own things. The staff coaches at BB were all once on staff at LRFC. And the guy that brought the Rush club to AR was also a LRFC coach. Is there any way to prevent that from happening again if the local clubs were to merge?
Nothing.  For all the talk of Lobos and Rush merging in Memphis, there have been splits there already. Germantown and Shelby County are 2 examples that I can think of that went back out on their own.

michu

Quote from: Brownclown on December 12, 2014, 04:02:19 am
Quote from: Lowguards on November 25, 2014, 02:45:22 pm


If a merger is the solution how do the clubs make it happen?
They disagreed with the system and they left to do their own things. The staff coaches at BB were all once on staff at LRFC. And the guy that brought the Rush club to AR was also a LRFC coach. Is there any way to prevent that from happening again if the local clubs were to merge?
Nothing.  For all the talk of Lobos and Rush merging in Memphis, there have been splits there already. Germantown and Shelby County are 2 examples that I can think of that went back out on their own.
Debbie Downer (aka Brownclown) Positives far outweigh the negatives in the Lobos Rush merger.

Brownclown

Quote from: michu on December 15, 2014, 10:37:30 am
Quote from: Brownclown on December 12, 2014, 04:02:19 am
Quote from: Lowguards on November 25, 2014, 02:45:22 pm


If a merger is the solution how do the clubs make it happen?
They disagreed with the system and they left to do their own things. The staff coaches at BB were all once on staff at LRFC. And the guy that brought the Rush club to AR was also a LRFC coach. Is there any way to prevent that from happening again if the local clubs were to merge?
Nothing.  For all the talk of Lobos and Rush merging in Memphis, there have been splits there already. Germantown and Shelby County are 2 examples that I can think of that went back out on their own.
Debbie Downer (aka Brownclown) Positives far outweigh the negatives in the Lobos Rush merger.

He asked a question and I answered. Look in the mirror for the "Debbie Downer" or in your case "Donnie Dbag".


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