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Transfer rule

Started by NWA Hawg, June 10, 2013, 11:16:42 pm

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NWA Hawg

Can someone explain the transfer rule to me? Their is a kid that has moved into your school district a couple weeks ago from Texas. Him and his parents have been having some problems so they sent him up here to live with his grandmother. I met the kid the other day and he seems like a good kid that has just had a hard life. Anyways he is a 10th grader entering the 11th grade and he is wanting to play sports at my sons school. I was just wandering was he going to have to sit out a year and only be able to play his senior year or will he be able to play this year because he made a move into the district? I have heard it both ways and was just wanting some clarification from the great minds on here. Doesn't seem fair for him to have to sit out his junior year over something that was defiantly not recruitment or something he could control.

sevenof400

A legitimate move is NOT a transfer and thus, does not have to wait a year before playing.

sevenof400

You should refer to the AAA handbook for further info.  See page 25 for the section discussing domiciles and transfers. 

Click here for the AAA Handbook.

NWA Hawg

Quote from: sevenof400 on June 10, 2013, 11:20:37 pm
A legitimate move is NOT a transfer and thus, does not have to wait a year before playing.

Well that's what I thought but all of those Bona fide moves on page 25 have to deal with the parents moving.

sevenof400

One useful suggestion I can make is this: if there is gray area with respect to a student's eligibility, get with the AD of the school the student will be attending NOW (if you already have not done so).  Be prepared that the school may or may not allow the incoming player to participate in athletics if there are areas of uncertainty.  This is because in the past, situations like this have come back to haunt players and teams who did not get with AAA to verify a player's eligibility prior to their participation in athletics.

Start the process now and be sure that you get (in writing from AAA) a determination of the student's status. 

Be prepared AAA may require documentation and / or other items so I would strongly suggest you start this process now. 

Good luck. 

ricepig

Have your AD call Lance, simple as that, but do get it in writing.

Busman

I know, right off the bat, this is not a "move". There is going to have to be a legal custody transfer. Otherwise, you could go rent Granny (no offense meant - I sleep with one) an apt in any district and have your child "live" there. Most coaches and AD's are not going to take a chance on forfeiting a season without a legal custody document. Back in 1972, I actually considered this and would have played on the NLRHS state championship team. But a AAA staff member lived right across the street, so I got my brains beat out for a 5-6 team. 

GuvHog

Quote from: Busman on June 11, 2013, 02:56:48 pm
I know, right off the bat, this is not a "move". There is going to have to be a legal custody transfer. Otherwise, you could go rent Granny (no offense meant - I sleep with one) an apt in any district and have your child "live" there. Most coaches and AD's are not going to take a chance on forfeiting a season without a legal custody document. Back in 1972, I actually considered this and would have played on the NLRHS state championship team. But a AAA staff member lived right across the street, so I got my brains beat out for a 5-6 team. 

Correct, it's not a Legitimate move since his Parents still live in Texas but since it's a transfer in from out of state the sitting out rule wouldn't apply anyway would it???

sevenof400

Quote from: Busman on June 11, 2013, 02:56:48 pm
I know, right off the bat, this is not a "move". There is going to have to be a legal custody transfer. Otherwise, you could go rent Granny (no offense meant - I sleep with one) an apt in any district and have your child "live" there. Most coaches and AD's are not going to take a chance on forfeiting a season without a legal custody document. Back in 1972, I actually considered this and would have played on the NLRHS state championship team. But a AAA staff member lived right across the street, so I got my brains beat out for a 5-6 team.

TMI Busman!

NWA Hawg

Quote from: GuvHog on June 11, 2013, 04:09:43 pm
Quote from: Busman on June 11, 2013, 02:56:48 pm
I know, right off the bat, this is not a "move". There is going to have to be a legal custody transfer. Otherwise, you could go rent Granny (no offense meant - I sleep with one) an apt in any district and have your child "live" there. Most coaches and AD's are not going to take a chance on forfeiting a season without a legal custody document. Back in 1972, I actually considered this and would have played on the NLRHS state championship team. But a AAA staff member lived right across the street, so I got my brains beat out for a 5-6 team. 

Correct, it's not a Legitimate move since his Parents still live in Texas but since it's a transfer in from out of state the sitting out rule wouldn't apply anyway would it???

Well that's what we were thinking to.

Busman

I really don't think it matters that it is from out of state. Without custody, it is not a legal residence, just a visitor.

GrizzlyBaseball

I'm curious.  without regard to the actual AAA rules or the interpretation of them.  Given these circumstances, if Grandmother does NOT have legal custody, parents did not move, kid wants to participate in athletics.  Who thinks he should be eligible?  Who thinks he should not be eligible?  I would have to vote no.  While there may be extenuating circumstances in this case it is the kind of slippery slope that opens the door for abuse.

ricepig

Quote from: GrizzlyBaseball on June 12, 2013, 09:58:02 am
I'm curious.  without regard to the actual AAA rules or the interpretation of them.  Given these circumstances, if Grandmother does NOT have legal custody, parents did not move, kid wants to participate in athletics.  Who thinks he should be eligible?  Who thinks he should not be eligible?  I would have to vote no.  While there may be extenuating circumstances in this case it is the kind of slippery slope that opens the door for abuse.

Got to have rules, so no.

True Fan

June 12, 2013, 10:34:23 am #13 Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 10:38:17 am by True Fan
Quote from: GrizzlyBaseball on June 12, 2013, 09:58:02 am
I'm curious.  without regard to the actual AAA rules or the interpretation of them.  Given these circumstances, if Grandmother does NOT have legal custody, parents did not move, kid wants to participate in athletics.  Who thinks he should be eligible?  Who thinks he should not be eligible?  I would have to vote no.  While there may be extenuating circumstances in this case it is the kind of slippery slope that opens the door for abuse.

If a kid goes to classes at a school, they should be eligible to participate on that school's athletic teams.

bleudog

Wasn't there a situation a few years ago that involved Woodlawn and Rison (can't remember which way) where a kid was allowed to play after moving in with grandparents because there was a medical condition with the grandparents and the student was considered a caregiver?

GuvHog

Quote from: GrizzlyBaseball on June 12, 2013, 09:58:02 am
I'm curious.  without regard to the actual AAA rules or the interpretation of them.  Given these circumstances, if Grandmother does NOT have legal custody, parents did not move, kid wants to participate in athletics.  Who thinks he should be eligible?  Who thinks he should not be eligible?  I would have to vote no.  While there may be extenuating circumstances in this case it is the kind of slippery slope that opens the door for abuse.

Is legal custody really necessary in the case of a transfer from out of state??? The move to his grandparents home was at his parents insistence.

GrizzlyBaseball

I haven't gone back to read the AAA rules in a while, but the requirements for a "complete and bona fide" change in residence don't seem differentiate between in-state and out of state.  I may be wrong.


NWA Hawg

Quote from: Busman on June 12, 2013, 09:45:38 am
I really don't think it matters that it is from out of state. Without custody, it is not a legal residence, just a visitor.

Well the only reason I was questioning the difference in transferring from out of state is because on page 25 section D it states 2. Domicile, transfer, and legal attendance rules apply only to students whose parents reside in the state of Arkansas, transfer within the state of Arkansas, or meet the Changing Schools / Athletic Participation (CSAP) guidelines. CSAP forms may only be used by schools within the state of Arkansas.

Intelligentsia

Here is another angle to consider.  If the student is deemed "Homeless" because he was "abandoned" by his parents, he would either be provided an opportunity to try out or the district and AAA could face a federal lawsuit which they would lose.  A student deemed homeless has full access to all opportunities afforded other students and a homeless students residence is basically determined by where he is sleeping.  Is he Homeless?  That would be determined by the district's Homeless coordinator after considering the grandmother's explanation.  From what little I have read in this thread, it sounds possible.

Eddie Goodson

Transfer rules only apply to in state transfers. Non issue here.

NWA Hawg

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on June 13, 2013, 06:32:44 am
Transfer rules only apply to in state transfers. Non issue here.

So would he be eligible in your opinion?

ricepig

Quote from: fann07 on June 13, 2013, 08:56:18 am
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on June 13, 2013, 06:32:44 am
Transfer rules only apply to in state transfers. Non issue here.

So would he be eligible in your opinion?

Eddie's opinion doesn't matter, run it by the AAA.

GrizzlyBaseball

I assume transfer rules were implemented to discourage recruiting or school-hopping.  Why do you suppose there would be a different set of rules for in-state transfers versus out of state?

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: GrizzlyBaseball on June 13, 2013, 02:29:43 pm
I assume transfer rules were implemented to discourage recruiting or school-hopping.  Why do you suppose there would be a different set of rules for in-state transfers versus out of state?
^^^This.

Eddie Goodson

June 13, 2013, 02:46:34 pm #24 Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 02:51:02 pm by Eddie Goodson
Quote from: fann07 on June 13, 2013, 08:56:18 am
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on June 13, 2013, 06:32:44 am
Transfer rules only apply to in state transfers. Non issue here.

So would he be eligible in your opinion?
D. Legal Attendance
1. A student’s eligibility for interscholastic athletics with
respect to the domicile rule may be in the public school
that the student is legally attending provided the transfer
was by July 1 before a student enters grades 7-10 and
the CSAP form has been comple
ted and filed with the
receiving district and AAA.
2. Domicile, transfer, and legal attendance rules apply only
to students whose parents reside in the state of
Arkansas, transfer within the state of Arkansas, or meet
the Changing Schools / Athletic Participation (CSAP)
guidelines. CSAP forms may only be used by schools
within the state of Arkansas.


A non issue. The kid moves from another state. He is eligible. AAA rules only apply when BOTH schools are AAA member schools.

ricepig

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on June 13, 2013, 02:46:34 pm
Quote from: fann07 on June 13, 2013, 08:56:18 am
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on June 13, 2013, 06:32:44 am
Transfer rules only apply to in state transfers. Non issue here.

So would he be eligible in your opinion?
D. Legal Attendance
1. A student's eligibility for interscholastic athletics with
respect to the domicile rule may be in the public school
that the student is legally attending provided the transfer
was by July 1 before a student enters grades 7-10 and
the CSAP form has been comple
ted and filed with the
receiving district and AAA.
2. Domicile, transfer, and legal attendance rules apply only
to students whose parents reside in the state of
Arkansas, transfer within the state of Arkansas, or meet
the Changing Schools / Athletic Participation (CSAP)
guidelines. CSAP forms may only be used by schools
within the state of Arkansas.


A non issue. The kid moves from another state. He is eligible. AAA rules only apply when BOTH schools are AAA member schools.

He would have to meet other rules, such as 8 semester, grade egibility, etc., but he can play assuming those rules are met.

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: ricepig on June 13, 2013, 02:58:17 pm
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on June 13, 2013, 02:46:34 pm
Quote from: fann07 on June 13, 2013, 08:56:18 am
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on June 13, 2013, 06:32:44 am
Transfer rules only apply to in state transfers. Non issue here.

So would he be eligible in your opinion?
D. Legal Attendance
1. A student's eligibility for interscholastic athletics with
respect to the domicile rule may be in the public school
that the student is legally attending provided the transfer
was by July 1 before a student enters grades 7-10 and
the CSAP form has been comple
ted and filed with the
receiving district and AAA.
2. Domicile, transfer, and legal attendance rules apply only
to students whose parents reside in the state of
Arkansas, transfer within the state of Arkansas, or meet
the Changing Schools / Athletic Participation (CSAP)
guidelines. CSAP forms may only be used by schools
within the state of Arkansas.


A non issue. The kid moves from another state. He is eligible. AAA rules only apply when BOTH schools are AAA member schools.

He would have to meet other rules, such as 8 semester, grade egibility, etc., but he can play assuming those rules are met.
Those are givens. They would apply to any student in Arkansas schools.

The rule quoted above shows transfer, domicile, and legal attendance rules are not applicable when coming from out of state.

True Fan

June 13, 2013, 03:43:19 pm #27 Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 03:49:43 pm by True Fan
The rule says he could be eligible in the district where his parents live.

They do not live in a district.

As the rules are written, he does not meet the criteria to be eligible at any school in the state.


You better get something in writing from the AAA.

arthurhawgerelli

Had a very similar situation a few years ago at a school I worked at.  You can ask for a hardship (your school's administration will have to do that).  I don't think there is enough here for the kid to be eligible, even on a hardship, based on what you've described.  He'll have to sit out a year.

Didn't work for the school I worked at.  The transfer wanted to leave the gang ridden inner city of Dallas.  The ruling my school got was there was not enough evidence (even though an assistant principal wrote a letter saying there indeed was gang pressure in the school district).  The kid moved to live with an aunt in Oklahoma and was all state 2 years in a row.

ricepig

Sounds like a lot of different opinions, I'd  go with the one to run it by the AAA.

sevenof400

Earlier in this thread, I posted a link to the AAA handbook.  In visiting the AAA website today, I see there is a guidebook on eligibility posted on their website.

Click here for that guide book...it might be a helpful resource.

GrizzlyBaseball

"Guardianship" is not recognized for eligibility purposes.

That is interesting.  I'm familiar with a situation in Fort Smith in which a kid played a season at a school based on grandma having guardianship.  Maybe he shouldn't have? 

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