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Attention 7A Soccer Fans / post scores here

Started by sevenof400, February 22, 2011, 10:42:18 am

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Arbitro

The web site www.askasoccerreferee.com is a forum where people send in questions regarding the Laws of the Game.  Most questions get answered by email, but some are chosen to be shown on the web site.  The site is run by USSF, and the answers can be considered official USSF positions.

Today there is a posting concerning the Bryant/Conway trick play situation.  The person posing the question is not from Arkansas (and he gets the teams wrong), but the answer is still instructive.  This is the USSF position and has no direct connection to NFHS, but the the reasoning still applies.


WHEN IS DECEPTION REWARDED?
May 19, 2011

Question:
In a recent viral video of a Conway AR high school match shows the center awarding a free kick to Conway and the Conway players setting up. Two players approach the area of the ball as if both are going to initiate the kick with one passing by the ball and then colliding with the other approaching player and both collapse on the ground while a third player initiates the kick. A score resulted.

Question is, has an offence been committed? My input would be yes that it is unsporting behavior in that the collision was set up as a distraction that is staged, much like a player taking an obvious dive after contacting a player of the opposing team. I can't see the trickery rule applying because it only addresses playing the ball back to the keeper and trying to circumvent a law of the game. I believe the goal was awarded. Not that it matters to me being I have no interest or contact with any team in Arkanas. Just discussing it with some current officials on how we would have called it. I am a laspsed official (not one of the choices below)

USSF answer (May 19, 2011):
Ah, deceit, the mother of legal gamesmanship. The kicking team is allowed to engage in its little bit of deception at almost any restart. Provided that the players who collide don't turn the event into a moaning, groaning, shrieking distraction, this was likely legal. Some playacting is certainly acceptable, but when an event is played to the hilt it could be seen as constituting either (a) exaggerating the seriousness of an injury or (b) the equivalent of shouting at an opponent to distract (either of which would be unsporting behavior). It all depends, of course, on the opinion of the referee, which would be based on how out of the ordinary the actions of these players were.

The Laws of the Game were not written to compensate for the mistakes of players, in this case the defending team that did not continue to pay attention to the subsequent kicker, the runner, and the ball itself.

CAVEAT: Please note that this is a high school game played under NFHS auspices, and not necessarily in accordance with the Laws of the Game. And the referee might be especially cunning and preempt any problems by stopping play for the "injury," which occurred before the ball was in play, have the players attended to, and restart with original free kick.


Chosen 1

Quote from: Arbitro on May 19, 2011, 10:48:24 am
The web site www.askasoccerreferee.com is a forum where people send in questions regarding the Laws of the Game.  Most questions get answered by email, but some are chosen to be shown on the web site.  The site is run by USSF, and the answers can be considered official USSF positions.

Today there is a posting concerning the Bryant/Conway trick play situation.  The person posing the question is not from Arkansas (and he gets the teams wrong), but the answer is still instructive.  This is the USSF position and has no direct connection to NFHS, but the the reasoning still applies.


WHEN IS DECEPTION REWARDED?
May 19, 2011

Question:
In a recent viral video of a Conway AR high school match shows the center awarding a free kick to Conway and the Conway players setting up. Two players approach the area of the ball as if both are going to initiate the kick with one passing by the ball and then colliding with the other approaching player and both collapse on the ground while a third player initiates the kick. A score resulted.

Question is, has an offence been committed? My input would be yes that it is unsporting behavior in that the collision was set up as a distraction that is staged, much like a player taking an obvious dive after contacting a player of the opposing team. I can't see the trickery rule applying because it only addresses playing the ball back to the keeper and trying to circumvent a law of the game. I believe the goal was awarded. Not that it matters to me being I have no interest or contact with any team in Arkanas. Just discussing it with some current officials on how we would have called it. I am a laspsed official (not one of the choices below)

USSF answer (May 19, 2011):
Ah, deceit, the mother of legal gamesmanship. The kicking team is allowed to engage in its little bit of deception at almost any restart. Provided that the players who collide don't turn the event into a moaning, groaning, shrieking distraction, this was likely legal. Some playacting is certainly acceptable, but when an event is played to the hilt it could be seen as constituting either (a) exaggerating the seriousness of an injury or (b) the equivalent of shouting at an opponent to distract (either of which would be unsporting behavior). It all depends, of course, on the opinion of the referee, which would be based on how out of the ordinary the actions of these players were.

The Laws of the Game were not written to compensate for the mistakes of players, in this case the defending team that did not continue to pay attention to the subsequent kicker, the runner, and the ball itself.

CAVEAT: Please note that this is a high school game played under NFHS auspices, and not necessarily in accordance with the Laws of the Game. And the referee might be especially cunning and preempt any problems by stopping play for the "injury," which occurred before the ball was in play, have the players attended to, and restart with original free kick.


Exactly what I said. Deceit happens everywhere.

United11

this is killing me.  arbitro's perfectly on point post shows that yeah, its a matter of discretion.  so no, deceit is not always ok but at the same time, it maaaay (even more emphasis on may) have been ok here.  if anything this post shows that everyone is right...if the ref had called this differently, that wouldnt prove anyone's point any better....time to move on folks, we have different opinions.

FSESC

Where will we put all the non-conference game scores?

cvlunrest7

NLR Boys 4-1 over Sylvan Hills

Sloppy, poor possession, NLR showed some flashes, nice crop of frshman club players that historically under this coach would not get to play. Next year they may be able to move up some.

NLR Girls 3 Sylvan 0

CatsBack


Sportsaholic94


CatsBack

Very well.  The older one scored 2 goals and the younger one scored 1. Conway had 5 different players score in the game and only allowed Northside to cross midfield 3-4 times all night. 

SirSoccer

Alex Carter is the best arkansas player right now.  She will take over every game this season.

CatsBack

More than being the best player in Arkansas, she is the best "team player" in Arkansas.  Very unselfish and makes everyone around her better.  She looks to set her teammates up first before taking the shot herself.   

Insider


Futbalfan

Varsity Boys Springdale vs Tulsa Edison

Springdale 4 Tulsa Edison 1

coach cleats

Conway lost 1-0 to Fayetteville girls. I guess Carter didn't take over game.

arksoc

Quote from: coach cleats on March 02, 2012, 08:04:16 pm
Conway lost 1-0 to Fayetteville girls. I guess Carter didn't take over game.

Too funny. But seriously, hope she wasn't hurt or anything.

SirSoccer

guessing she just had a bad day.  I'm sure she is still by far better than anyone else that was on the field.

Sportsaholic94

Funny how a bunch of grown men want to talk bad about a 16 year old girl. Why don't some of y'all support one of the better talents to ever come out of our state rather than talk trash about her? If any of you knew either of the Carter's personally then you would realize they are two of the nicest, hardest working, most humble girls you could meet. So let's get some maturity and support our youth. 


hogbert

Don't think anyone has any issue with the carter girl(s) themselves, just the breathless hyperbole with which some the "adults" on this board describe her talents and that of the CAC "prolific" scorer. She's a kid that can play soccer, let her make her own name. She doesn't need help.

SirSoccer

I'll talk Carter up, she deserves the credit from the work she puts in.  She will help open doors for other Arkansas soccer players.

soccerfiend

Quote from: coach cleats on March 02, 2012, 08:04:16 pm
Conway lost 1-0 to Fayetteville girls. I guess Carter didn't take over game.

For someone who represents himself as an adult and purports to be a soccer coach that is particularly classless and worrisome. Makes me wonder what you're teaching your "team"

snakebite

Quote from: coach cleats on March 02, 2012, 08:04:16 pm
Conway lost 1-0 to Fayetteville girls. I guess Carter didn't take over game.
[/quote

Fayetteville played tough and played good soccer, but with maybe one shot on goal (ball trickled into the keeper's feet) and a goal scored on a PK, they didn't light up the stat sheet.  Conway controlled the bulk of the game and had 6-7 shots on goal.  Fayetteville has a solid back line and a terrific keeper.  I may be looking too far ahead, but I can't wait for the Lady Cats to catch them in the playoffs.

The Lady Cats turned around and beat Har-Ber 4-0 today and the Conway keeper was tested many times.


LRfan

Quote from: Sportsaholic94 on March 03, 2012, 01:19:00 am
Funny how a bunch of grown men want to talk bad about a 16 year old girl. Why don't some of y'all support one of the better talents to ever come out of our state rather than talk trash about her? If any of you knew either of the Carter's personally then you would realize they are two of the nicest, hardest working, most humble girls you could meet. So let's get some maturity and support our youth.
Quote from: hogbert on March 03, 2012, 10:07:20 am
Don't think anyone has any issue with the carter girl(s) themselves, just the breathless hyperbole with which some the "adults" on this board describe her talents and that of the CAC "prolific" scorer. She's a kid that can play soccer, let her make her own name. She doesn't need help.

I personally find it distasteful when critical comments are posted about teenage athletes. However, when praiseful posts are made about how great a player is, the player is going to be much more closely scrutinzed and when they fall short of the expectations some people are going to jump on that. Additionally, if some soccer fans did not post opinions (both praise and questioning the worthiness of praise) of teams and players, there would not be much to read on this site. Look back over some of the old posts from previous years and you will see that this site is loaded with such talk.

CatsBack

We all should realize that at this level of soccer, no one player is going to "take over and win" a game against good competition. 

On my comments about Alex being a "team player", she created at least 3 scoring opportunities for other players that didn't finish the play.  To open the second half, Alex single handedly dribbled through the Fayetteville defense and then played the ball off to another player who missed the shot.  Could she have taken the shot, sure.  But instead she is a very unselfish player.

I was impressed with how Fayetteville played during the match.  While Conway did have more scoring opportunities, they didn't finish and that's the name of the game.  And this year's Fayetteville team is much more balanced than last year's team. 

Defensively, Conway played an excellent game with the exception of the the penalty. Although Fayetteville rarely threatened, they got the one break they needed to win the game.

Overall, it was a very competitive and well played game.       

sevenof400

Quote from: CatsBack on March 04, 2012, 09:49:05 am
...On my comments about Alex being a "team player", she created at least 3 scoring opportunities for other players that didn't finish the play.  To open the second half, Alex single handedly dribbled through the Fayetteville defense and then played the ball off to another player who missed the shot.  Could she have taken the shot, sure.  But instead she is a very unselfish player.

As good as Alex is (and let me be crystal clear on this - she is very good IMHO), this is the one area of her game I would like to see her improve.  I realize that means she will need to become more selfish (and looks more for her shot) but this is only because she is so unselfish.  Put another way, I'd like my team to depend more on a 25 yard strike from Alex as opposed to setting up a less skilled teammate from half that distance. 

I think a significant contributing factor to her unselfish play is she has spent so much time in the midfield, and as outstanding midfielders do, they look first to set up their teammates for shots on goal.    Given what Conway lost from last year, I think it is fair to say that if the Conway girls are to be in the hunt for a repeat of last year, they will need scoring production from Alex along with her distribution of the ball. 

It is still early in the year and there is a lot of time to sort things like this out but at this point in the year as opposed to last year, Conway has some work to do on the offensive end. 

SirSoccer

Completely agree with 7/400, When she learns when the time if right to be selfish she will do wonders.

Fox 16 Arkansas Fox 24 Arkansas