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Riverside vs Episcopal

Started by NeaBaller21, March 03, 2017, 07:24:25 pm

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Lrbasketballguru

We might not have Parkview talent, but we still have great players. Robinson and Payne are some of the best in their age group. (Those guys have been in Episcopal for years btw)

CoolBreeze

Quote from: RedWolf275 on March 04, 2017, 07:20:15 pm
They have no answer for the multiplier. The multiplier tells anybody who has any sense that the AAA knows there are huge advantages for the privates like this very murky financial aid they can supply to selected students.
No, it only proves that there enough public school supporters with sufficient influence to persuade AAA, or whoever, to give private schools a handicap.

CoolBreeze

Quote from: General Lee on March 04, 2017, 07:40:09 pm
So you have no answer?? Once again resorting to calling names.
I will ask again, why would the AAA or the large majority of other associations in the United States feel the need to add a multiplier or class bump to the private schools if they didn't have an unfair advantage?
For the record, there are many states that completely separate public from private.
I'm waiting...probably childish name calling but I'll wait for that too.
Where was the name calling in the post you cited? Nowhere. However, you did use the word "childish' in your post. That sounds like name calling to me.

FYI. Making an assertion that the majority of other associations do something does not make it true. You cite no evidence. People on your side of this argument rarely do. In fact, anti-public schoolers lobby for a penalty against private schools, and then when you are successful, you use the sanctions to argue that it proves your point. That's what is called a circular argument.

These arguments were refuted point by point last year. However, no amount of evidence will convince you. You and your cohorts are convinced that all private schools recruit without any evidence whatsoever, other than the fact that some (not all) private schools are successful in sports. It matters not one whit that ECS is precluded from accepting the majority of top athletes in Little Rock because of academic standards. You folks just ignore that and make another unsupported allegation, as convinced as ever that they recruit.

Moreover, even if it could be proved beyond all doubt that no recruiting occurred, that would not deter you. You would make yet another unsupported argument that private schools have an unfair advantage. Like their parents make too much money. Or too many of their student athletes come from two-parent homes. Give me a break.

When people refuse to pay attention to facts, it makes no sense to keep butting one's head against a brick wall. So, I am done with this discussion. To make further points would be pointless.

Central AR

It's easy to connect the dots a few of those guys couldn't get it. I'll make this as simple as I can. Little Rock is the biggest city in the state and has been known for basketball for decades. Basketball players pour out of Little Rock into college more than any other city. So lots of talent to choose from. If you notice, a majority of schools in LR do great in basketball when they face teams outside of Central Arkansas. Public schools and private schools. I'm sorry if your team ran into a Little Rock team. There is a basketball gym in every corner of this city and aau teams every quarter mile. ECS is having a great year but so is a lot of other schools near them. Lastly let's be honest ECS ain't better this year than most schools in LR. They aren't world beaters like people on here seem to think.

General Lee

Quote from: CoolBreeze on March 04, 2017, 09:07:29 pm
Where was the name calling in the post you cited? Nowhere. However, you did use the word "childish' in your post. That sounds like name calling to me.

FYI. Making an assertion that the majority of other associations do something does not make it true. You cite no evidence. People on your side of this argument rarely do. In fact, anti-public schoolers lobby for a penalty against private schools, and then when you are successful, you use the sanctions to argue that it proves your point. That's what is called a circular argument.

These arguments were refuted point by point last year. However, no amount of evidence will convince you. You and your cohorts are convinced that all private schools recruit without any evidence whatsoever, other than the fact that some (not all) private schools are successful in sports. It matters not one whit that ECS is precluded from accepting the majority of top athletes in Little Rock because of academic standards. You folks just ignore that and make another unsupported allegation, as convinced as ever that they recruit.

Moreover, even if it could be proved beyond all doubt that no recruiting occurred, that would not deter you. You would make yet another unsupported argument that private schools have an unfair advantage. Like their parents make too much money. Or too many of their student athletes come from two-parent homes. Give me a break.

When people refuse to pay attention to facts, it makes no sense to keep butting one's head against a brick wall. So, I am done with this discussion. To make further points would be pointless.

Calling me "little guy" would be what I was referring. Or did you overlook that? 
So tell me the reason that all of these state associations are moving these private schools up in class or completely separating them? There must be something to it. I can't imagine all those states were just out to get the private schools. No, in fact there was evidence that the private schools were winning at a disproportionate rate. I'm not researching it for you but those are facts!! Use Google. I seen nowhere you presented any facts to convince me that the reason they move up or separate is anything other than they have a competitive advantage.

General Lee

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 09:27:16 pm
It's easy to connect the dots a few of those guys couldn't get it. I'll make this as simple as I can. Little Rock is the biggest city in the state and has been known for basketball for decades. Basketball players pour out of Little Rock into college more than any other city. So lots of talent to choose from. If you notice, a majority of schools in LR do great in basketball when they face teams outside of Central Arkansas. Public schools and private schools. I'm sorry if your team ran into a Little Rock team. There is a basketball gym in every corner of this city and aau teams every quarter mile. ECS is having a great year but so is a lot of other schools near them. Lastly let's be honest ECS ain't better this year than most schools in LR. They aren't world beaters like people on here seem to think.

So Central, you figured out that ALL private schools have to move up a class or are you still confused?

Central AR

Quote from: General Lee on March 04, 2017, 10:25:32 pm
So Central, you figured out that ALL private schools have to move up a class or are you still confused?

You're aren't touching on any of my points so I won't speak on yours.

Central AR

Quote from: General Lee on March 04, 2017, 10:25:32 pm
So Central, you figured out that ALL private schools have to move up a class or are you still confused?

But yes I stated earlier geographics was the reasoning. You can go back and go fish for that one.

Batman44

ECS-fans and teams = Arrogant A-holes!

General Lee

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 07:43:43 pm
Clarksville went from 4A to 5A in 2012 or 13. Greenwood went up to 6A. Alma same then went back to 5A. Classes change all the time. Did you really not know public and and private schools change classifications all the time? Like man are you serious?

You sounded pretty confused in this one.

RedWolf275

Quote from: CoolBreeze on March 04, 2017, 09:07:29 pm
Where was the name calling in the post you cited? Nowhere. However, you did use the word "childish' in your post. That sounds like name calling to me.

FYI. Making an assertion that the majority of other associations do something does not make it true. You cite no evidence. People on your side of this argument rarely do. In fact, anti-public schoolers lobby for a penalty against private schools, and then when you are successful, you use the sanctions to argue that it proves your point. That's what is called a circular argument.

These arguments were refuted point by point last year. However, no amount of evidence will convince you. You and your cohorts are convinced that all private schools recruit without any evidence whatsoever, other than the fact that some (not all) private schools are successful in sports. It matters not one whit that ECS is precluded from accepting the majority of top athletes in Little Rock because of academic standards. You folks just ignore that and make another unsupported allegation, as convinced as ever that they recruit.

Moreover, even if it could be proved beyond all doubt that no recruiting occurred, that would not deter you. You would make yet another unsupported argument that private schools have an unfair advantage. Like their parents make too much money. Or too many of their student athletes come from two-parent homes. Give me a break.

When people refuse to pay attention to facts, it makes no sense to keep butting one's head against a brick wall. So, I am done with this discussion. To make further points would be pointless.


Wow! I was reading this post and actually fell asleep. You talk about a cure for insomnia this post is it!

General Lee


RedWolf275

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 10:28:04 pm
You're aren't touching on any of my points so I won't speak on yours.

I hope this qualifies as name calling but is this person dense or what?

Central AR

Quote from: General Lee on March 04, 2017, 10:40:51 pm
You sounded pretty confused in this one.

lol I thought you were the one who didn't know that. You don't explain yourself that well. No worries

Central AR

Quote from: RedWolf275 on March 04, 2017, 10:45:42 pm
I hope this qualifies as name calling but is this person dense or what?

He really hasn't though lol he keeps staying on his own path and won't consider anything else. You said ECS recruits elementary kids. You can't calll someone dense and say that.

General Lee

And for the record I never once said that ECS recruited. Maybe they do, maybe they don't but there is a large majority that do all across the country and that is why there is a multiplier or separation.

Central AR

Quote from: General Lee on March 04, 2017, 10:49:21 pm
And for the record I never once said that ECS recruited. Maybe they do, maybe they don't but there is a large majority that do all across the country and that is why there is a multiplier or separation.

You strongly implied it.

Central AR

March 04, 2017, 10:58:02 pm #117 Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 11:02:24 pm by Central AR
Somehow this talk went from the game to multipliers to recruiting. It's all over the place. You want to talk about this and I want to talk about something else. ECS doesn't recruit. Simple as that. Gavin Hawkins is the only transfer they have but they are a great team with or without him. He also had to sit an entire year to be eligible to play. 1 transfer in 5 years is not recruiting my friend. I'm talking about ECS. No one else. So let's stay on topic here. If you have proof or evidence I would love to hear it. Were just talking about the team who beat Riverside by 15+ today.

Knickerbocker

Quote from: Batman44 on March 04, 2017, 10:37:05 pm
ECS-fans and teams = Arrogant A-holes!
Think this sums up EC$ EC$ EC$""""🤔

General Lee

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 10:46:45 pm
lol I thought you were the one who didn't know that. You don't explain yourself that well. No worries

I see...you're still confused.
You thought I was the one who didn't know that private schools move up?? I'm the first one that even brought it up. You tried to compare it to Clarksville moving up to 5A. Totally irrelevant to the argument.



I implied it because they are a private school. I have no idea if they actually recruit or not but I would say that private schools have won state championships in all sports at a disproportionate rate.

Central AR

March 04, 2017, 11:06:25 pm #120 Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 11:12:17 pm by Central AR
Quote from: General Lee on March 04, 2017, 11:03:26 pm
I see...you're still confused.
You thought I was the one who didn't know that private schools move up?? I'm the first one that even brought it up. You tried to compare it to Clarksville moving up to 5A. Totally irrelevant to the argument.



I implied it because they are a private school. I have no idea if they actually recruit or not but I would say that private schools have won state championships in all sports at a disproportionate rate.

I brought that up because I really didn't think you had a clue what was going on. Oh well just confusion. You are looking at this thing as whole and I'm looking at it for 1 school which I know the situation for them a lot more than you. Anyways it was fun. Next time don't imply something when you have no idea if that school actually takes part in it. That's where this argument went downhill when you didn't just say, hey I have no idea what's going on at ECS and I want someone to inform me who knows more about it. Maybe Riverside has players who don't live within the school district which would make it illegal for them to play. I guess it's a possibility since it happens at public schools. Who knows. You see what I mean.

RedWolf275

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 10:48:53 pm
He really hasn't though lol he keeps staying on his own path and won't consider anything else. You said ECS recruits elementary kids. You can't calll someone dense and say that.

My old superintendent once told me "you can't reason with a ignorant man". It's just hit me what he meant.

Central AR

Quote from: RedWolf275 on March 04, 2017, 11:12:58 pm
My old superintendent once told me "you can't reason with a ignorant man". It's just hit me what he meant.

I'm ignorant for saying that comment you typed was stupid? I mean, sir, it kind of was. Zero proof or evidence. You literally said ECS recruits elementary kids. That's silly.

Knickerbocker

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 10:58:02 pm
Somehow this talk went from the game to multipliers to recruiting. It's all over the place. You want to talk about this and I want to talk about something else. ECS doesn't recruit. Simple as that. Gavin Hawkins is the only transfer they have but they are a great team with or without him. He also had to sit an entire year to be eligible to play. 1 transfer in 5 years is not recruiting my friend. I'm talking about ECS. No one else. So let's stay on topic here. If you have proof or evidence I would love to hear it. Were just talking about the team who beat Riverside by 15+ today.
Hey can you get me up to date on this thread because I failed comprehension in high school? Should've went to EC$ I guess but wasn't much of a hooper so wouldn't been able to afford it

Rebelfan77

This thread has done nothing but make both schools look like complete idiots. You've taken these boy accomplishments and turned them into some crazy arguements over who lives where and what school they should actually play for. As I said prior this is not about you grown "men" arguing over who recruits and who doesn't. Riverside lost. We werent playing up to our potential today and ECS took advantage of that. Grow up and quit trying to live your lives through these kids. Praise them for the long hours of practice they put in, the injuries they play through and their dedication to their schools.

Central AR

Quote from: Rebelfan77 on March 04, 2017, 11:22:00 pm
This thread has done nothing but make both schools look like complete idiots. You've taken these boy accomplishments and turned them into some crazy arguements over who lives where and what school they should actually play for. As I said prior this is not about you grown "men" arguing over who recruits and who doesn't. Riverside lost. We werent playing up to our potential today and ECS took advantage of that. Grow up and quit trying to live your lives through these kids. Praise them for the long hours of practice they put in, the injuries they play through and their dedication to their schools.

Yeah it's getting out of hand. Literally snapped right when he said Episcopal recruits kids in elementary. I've never heard of that in my entire life. A majority of those kids weren't even living in the area years ago. I should have ignored the mental person. That's my fault.

NeaBaller21

Episcopal outplayed Riverside. Wouldn't say Riverside was spanked because it was a 1 point game in the 4th. Nevertheless GAVIN STONE is the best player in 3A in the state of Arkansas and he doesn't even play AAU ball or put all his time into Basketball. But, goodluck to ECS in the finals.  Don't overlook Tuckerman like Lamar did!

Lrbasketballguru

Consider this: you can move from public to public without hindrance. Thus, the ability to form super teams is actually easier for public schools, not privates. I think Episcopal does well in basketball because a most of the kids on their team would have trouble competing for spots on other teams in a talent-rich LR area. Btw, Episcopal hands out around  1 million in aid to its student body. You can find that on the website. Considering tuitions cost, that is much more than what would cover the athletes. (No one goes to school for free there anyway) An overwhelming majority of the kids on aid there are not even remote athletic stars, or athletes at all.

Central AR

Quote from: NeaBaller21 on March 04, 2017, 11:28:06 pm
Episcopal outplayed Riverside. Wouldn't say Riverside was spanked because it was a 1 point game in the 4th. Nevertheless GAVIN STONE is the best player in 3A in the state of Arkansas and he doesn't even play AAU ball or put all his time into Basketball. But, goodluck to ECS in the finals.  Don't overlook Tuckerman like Lamar did!

I 100% agree about Gavin Stone. When I said "spanked" I meant the game, not where it was at in the 4th quarter. A 17 point loss is a spanking and that's the final score which matters.

NeaBaller21

The final score says "spanking". It wasn't a spanking no matter which way you slice it!

Knickerbocker

Quote from: Rebelfan77 on March 04, 2017, 11:22:00 pm
This thread has done nothing but make both schools look like complete idiots. You've taken these boy accomplishments and turned them into some crazy arguements over who lives where and what school they should actually play for. As I said prior this is not about you grown "men" arguing over who recruits and who doesn't. Riverside lost. We werent playing up to our potential today and ECS took advantage of that. Grow up and quit trying to live your lives through these kids. Praise them for the long hours of practice they put in, the injuries they play through and their dedication to their schools.
You should read less and post none because there are tons of idiots around here go read through the 1A board.

Central AR

Quote from: Lrbasketballguru on March 04, 2017, 11:29:01 pm
Consider this: you can move from public to public without hindrance. Thus, the ability to form super teams is actually easier for public schools, not privates. I think Episcopal does well in basketball because a most of the kids on their team would have trouble competing for spots on other teams in a talent-rich LR area. Btw, Episcopal hands out around  1 million in aid to its student body. You can find that on the website. Considering tuitions cost, that is much more than what would cover the athletes. (No one goes to school for free there anyway) An overwhelming majority of the kids on aid there are not even remote athletic stars, or athletes at all.

Exactly true. Seriously they really have no idea what they are discussing. They think they do but they think they know a lot about everything.

Central AR

Quote from: NeaBaller21 on March 04, 2017, 11:32:34 pm
The final score says "spanking". It wasn't a spanking no matter which way you slice it!

I like my slices as a whole. The biggest slice some would say. The whole is 17 point loss... spanking lol

RedWolf275

Quote from: NeaBaller21 on March 04, 2017, 11:32:34 pm
The final score says "spanking". It wasn't a spanking no matter which way you slice it!

NEA, don't try to reason with this guy. It won't work.

Lrbasketballguru

This thread needs to be locked. It is tarnishing the reputation of two great schools. More importantly, the kids and coaches read this stuff and its likely very humiliating. Imagine being told you were recruited and that your championship is therefore meaningless. Please stop this argument.

Central AR

Quote from: RedWolf275 on March 04, 2017, 11:37:02 pm
NEA, don't try to reason with this guy. It won't work.

You're still up? I thought you had to do some 1st grade recruiting. Man how can you show your face here after saying that comment? I literally posted that on my twitter and my feed won't stop talking about it. Like come on man. That was a stupid comment. You have to come to terms with that.

Central AR

Quote from: Lrbasketballguru on March 04, 2017, 11:38:22 pm
This thread needs to be locked. It is tarnishing the reputation of two great schools. More importantly, the kids and coaches read this stuff and its likely very humiliating. Imagine being told you were recruited and that your championship is therefore meaningless. Please stop this argument.

Do they always blame recruiting after a loss to a private school?

Knickerbocker

Should read EC$* on the trophy

Rebelfan77

I can tell you these post are not from parents. Just people that want to live through our kids. Those boys play with 100% of everything they have and make no excuses for games they lose. After a loss they are at the gym trying to figure out what they need to do different. Bashing other programs gets you no where. 

Central AR

Quote from: Rebelfan77 on March 04, 2017, 11:45:49 pm
I can tell you these post are not from parents. Just people that want to live through our kids. Those boys play with 100% of everything they have and make no excuses for games they lose. After a loss they are at the gym trying to figure out what they need to do different. Bashing other programs gets you no where.

A little trash talk is going to happen. Especially after a big semi-finals game. It's just going to happen. However, when people come on here and make accusations that they have no proof of, it's embarrassing. Some went as far to say that Episcopal starts recruiting as early as elementary. I hope he was trolling but from the look of other comments, he was being 100% serious. It's a shame Riverside fans had to take it this far.

General Lee

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 11:06:25 pm
I brought that up because I really didn't think you had a clue what was going on. Oh well just confusion. You are looking at this thing as whole and I'm looking at it for 1 school which I know the situation for them a lot more than you. Anyways it was fun. Next time don't imply something when you have no idea if that school actually takes part in it. That's where this argument went downhill when you didn't just say, hey I have no idea what's going on at ECS and I want someone to inform me who knows more about it. Maybe Riverside has players who don't live within the school district which would make it illegal for them to play. I guess it's a possibility since it happens at public schools. Who knows. You see what I mean.

It doesn't matter to me if they take part in it or not. They are private so my point remains the same. They have an unfair advantage somehow someway. People that know more about it than you and me agree on it or else there wouldn't be a multiplier or class bump. You had it right when you said I was looking at it as a whole. I'm looking at the big picture and you are defending ECS. The point is this: they can recruit!! Legally! That is playing by a different set of rules which in my opinion should mean they play in a different league. That's not saying that some public schools don't but that's beside the point.  AAA is supposed to enforce it, whether they do or not is a whole different topic.

Central AR

Quote from: General Lee on March 04, 2017, 11:50:21 pm
It doesn't matter to me if they take part in it or not. They are private so my point remains the same. They have an unfair advantage somehow someway. People that know more about it than you and me agree on it or else there wouldn't be a multiplier or class bump. You had it right when you said I was looking at it as a whole. I'm looking at the big picture and you are defending ECS. The point is this: they can recruit!! Legally! That is playing by a different set of rules which in my opinion should mean they play in a different league. That's not saying that some public schools don't but that's beside the point.  AAA is supposed to enforce it, whether they do or not is a whole different topic.

All good. I for sure see what you are saying. We just were looking at it from different spectrums.

RedWolf275

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 11:38:49 pm
You're still up? I thought you had to do some 1st grade recruiting. Man how can you show your face here after saying that comment? I literally posted that on my twitter and my feed won't stop talking about it. Like come on man. That was a stupid comment. You have to come to terms with that.

I got a hour and a half nap while ago reading that rambling dissertation defending private schools. It put me to sleep. Got to have a good elementary program to have successful high school program. Private schools should play private schools. Why are private schools against this idea?

General Lee

Quote from: Rebelfan77 on March 04, 2017, 11:22:00 pm
This thread has done nothing but make both schools look like complete idiots. You've taken these boy accomplishments and turned them into some crazy arguements over who lives where and what school they should actually play for. As I said prior this is not about you grown "men" arguing over who recruits and who doesn't. Riverside lost. We werent playing up to our potential today and ECS took advantage of that. Grow up and quit trying to live your lives through these kids. Praise them for the long hours of practice they put in, the injuries they play through and their dedication to their schools.

Well I haven't bashed any school or tarnished anything. I'll stand by my posts. I simply do not believe private schools should be playing public. I'm not the only person that thinks that either. And I'm not trying to live my life through any kid! But these are important topics that are discussed year in year out all across the country. I can't think of a better place to do it, can you? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that a new thread could've been started long ago because my argument hasn't been about ECS vs Riverside in a long time!
This wouldn't be much of a forum if all we did was get on here and report scores and glad hand the winners and console the losers.

Rebelfan77

That wasn't aimed at one person. I'm it's all of the post about transfers. Ridgediels is a private school in our area and I can promise you they don't recruit for sports! Public schools recruit just as bad as private and with the school choice laws it's easy to go where ever you want. This arguement  will never end. I'm

870baller15

Quote from: Central AR on March 04, 2017, 07:14:59 pm
Read my last reply. That will answer every question you have. LR has the best basketball teams in the state every year. It's been like that for years. Public or private. Majority of them do well. I'm sorry your team ran into a LR school. The outcome is not a surprise.

I don't know about LR having the best teams every year. Jonesboro is usually pretty salty

870baller15

Congrats to ECS but you couldn't pay me enough money to go there. You can tell that is a team that has been put together when they only have around 100 fans in comparison to Riversides 500. I feel like those boys have been robbed to know what it feels like to have everyone from their hometown backing them. Congrats to Riverside on the great year they have had.

Lrbasketballguru

Actually Episcopal had a slim crowd for its standards and has been known to have one of the best student sections in the state over the years. There are tons of schools in little Rock (coupled with more activities to do while games are going) so the whole city can't back them like Riverside.

cdelaney

I'm not going to rehash my previous posts about recruiting, ECS, private schools, etc. (You're welcome). But ***holes comments are pretty pathetic.
The newspaper has a summary of all the State Champions in all classes over the past 5 years. There have been 4 private schools out of 70 champions.

General Lee

Quote from: cdelaney on March 05, 2017, 09:45:32 am
I'm not going to rehash my previous posts about recruiting, ECS, private schools, etc. (You're welcome). But ***holes comments are pretty pathetic.
The newspaper has a summary of all the State Champions in all classes over the past 5 years. There have been 4 private schools out of 70 champions.

There have been 4 in the last 4 years just in boys basketball! How about football? Or all other sports. Post stats on that please.
Heck I would go as far to say that 4/70 is disproportionate. I'm sure that private schools are less than 5% of the total schools in the AAA.

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