Let me try and keep this as simple as possible, but still get a lot of mileage here...... ;D
1) Team A and B are playing and in the course of play, a loose ball occurs.
A1 and B1 run, hustle, dive etc to get the ball and obtain control. A referee blows his whistle, and the call is a held ball. If played stopped here, this is easy - just refer to the possession arrow.
But as they are separating just after the whistle blows, A1 and B1 exchange physical contact (not punches, rather an elbow directed at each other - something like this).
The referee calls technical fouls on both A1 and B1.
This should be recorded in the book as a technical foul on A1, a personal foul on A1 and a team foul on team A. Correct?
Also, this should be recorded in the book as a technical foul on B1, a personal foul on B1 and a team foul on team B. Correct?
In this case, shouldn't both teams shoot technicals and the restart is a thrown in for the team with the possession arrow?
...this has the same beginning, but more at the end....
2) Team A and B are playing and in the course of play, a loose ball occurs.
A1 and B1 run, hustle, dive etc to get the ball and obtain control. A referee blows his whistle, and the call is a held ball. If played stopped here, this is easy - just refer to the possession arrow.
But as they are separating just after the whistle blows, A1 and B1 exchange physical contact (not punches, rather an elbow directed at each other).
The referee calls technical fouls on both A1 and B1.
As A1 is separating from B1, a different referee calls another technical foul on A1. Let's assume it was for something verbal (not that it truly matters).
There are TWO technical fouls on A1, and one technical foul on B1.
A1 is disqualified.
This should be recorded in the book as a TWO technical fouls on A1, two personal fouls on A1 and a TWO team fouls on team A. Correct?
Also, this should be recorded in the book as a technical foul on B1, a personal foul on B1 and a team foul on team B. Correct?
In this case, shouldn't both teams shoot technicals and the restart is a thrown in for the team with the possession arrow?
In this case, A would shoot two free throws, B would shoot four free throws.
Wouldn't the restart be a throw in for the team with the possession arrow?
Quote from: sevenof400 on December 06, 2016, 10:03:07 pm
Let me try and keep this as simple as possible, but still get a lot of mileage here...... ;D
1) Team A and B are playing and in the course of play, a loose ball occurs.
A1 and B1 run, hustle, dive etc to get the ball and obtain control. A referee blows his whistle, and the call is a held ball. If played stopped here, this is easy - just refer to the possession arrow.
But as they are separating just after the whistle blows, A1 and B1 exchange physical contact (not punches, rather an elbow directed at each other - something like this).
The referee calls technical fouls on both A1 and B1.
This should be recorded in the book as a technical foul on A1, a personal foul on A1 and a team foul on team A. Correct?
Also, this should be recorded in the book as a technical foul on B1, a personal foul on B1 and a team foul on team B. Correct?
In this case, shouldn't both teams shoot technicals and the restart is a thrown in for the team with the possession arrow?
...this has the same beginning, but more at the end....
2) Team A and B are playing and in the course of play, a loose ball occurs.
A1 and B1 run, hustle, dive etc to get the ball and obtain control. A referee blows his whistle, and the call is a held ball. If played stopped here, this is easy - just refer to the possession arrow.
But as they are separating just after the whistle blows, A1 and B1 exchange physical contact (not punches, rather an elbow directed at each other).
The referee calls technical fouls on both A1 and B1.
As A1 is separating from B1, a different referee calls another technical foul on A1. Let's assume it was for something verbal (not that it truly matters).
There are TWO technical fouls on A1, and one technical foul on B1.
A1 is disqualified.
This should be recorded in the book as a TWO technical fouls on A1, two personal fouls on A1 and a TWO team fouls on team A. Correct?
Also, this should be recorded in the book as a technical foul on B1, a personal foul on B1 and a team foul on team B. Correct?
In this case, shouldn't both teams shoot technicals and the restart is a thrown in for the team with the possession arrow?
In this case, A would shoot two free throws, B would shoot four free throws.
Wouldn't the restart be a throw in for the team with the possession arrow?
The Double Technical (I'm assuming that was the call on A1 & B1) constitutes no free throws and ball awarded to team with possession arrow from the point of interruption.
Two free throws awarded to team B. It would be B's ball thrown in at mid-court. Once you have the second technical called on A1.
This would be my interpretation!
Thanks 3 Dollar - was there a rule change I missed on technical fouls as I thought they used to shoot all free throws associated with technical fouls - even when technical fouls offset....
What about the book entries too - are those correct?
Also, in both cases A1 & B1 would be disqualified for fighting under Rule 4-18-1
Quote from: sevenof400 on December 07, 2016, 08:26:29 am
Thanks 3 Dollar - was there a rule change I missed on technical fouls as I thought they used to shoot all free throws associated with technical fouls - even when technical fouls offset....
What about the book entries too - are those correct?
Book entries are correct!
Oh...I guess it was about 4 or 5 years ago that they changed the rule about going back to the point of interruption. But for Double Technicals it has always been recorded in book and gone to possession arrow for as long as I can remember.
Quote from: bluegrassboy75 on December 07, 2016, 12:34:30 pm
Also, in both cases A1 & B1 would be disqualified for fighting under Rule 4-18-1
For what its worth, Bluegrassboy75, the referee did NOT disqualify the players involved in the scuffle around the held ball at that point. He seemed satisfied to give the offsetting technical fouls at that point. I am NOT saying this was / is right or wrong rather that I did not see enough of the play to know why he gave the technical fouls (but I do know that he did give them!)
I believe A1 was was disqualified for something he said after the play - his comment earned the second technical and disqualification at that point.
Quote from: 3 Dollar on December 07, 2016, 01:46:04 pm
Book entries are correct!
Oh...I guess it was about 4 or 5 years ago that they changed the rule about going back to the point of interruption. But for Double Technicals it has always been recorded in book and gone to possession arrow for as long as I can remember.
Thanks 3 Dollar!
Quote from: sevenof400 on December 07, 2016, 02:48:34 pm
For what its worth, Bluegrassboy75, the referee did NOT disqualify the players involved in the scuffle around the held ball at that point. He seemed satisfied to give the offsetting technical fouls at that point. I am NOT saying this was / is right or wrong rather that I did not see enough of the play to know why he gave the technical fouls (but I do know that he did give them!)
I believe A1 was was disqualified for something he said after the play - his comment earned the second technical and disqualification at that point.
I can see that sevenof400.
I would have to be in the situation to determine if it was a "fight" or not, but by rule that "an attempt to strike, punch or kick by using a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made." is considered fighting and is an automatic ejection.
But to answer your questions about free throws:
Case A no free throws for either team. Since the initial call was a held ball, then you go to the arrow at the point of interruption.
Case B 2 free throws for Team B for the second technical foul and ball at halfcourt.
BTW, great question. Made me think for a bit.
Regarding free throws for a technical foul. I want to see how many of you can answer this correctly. Can you bring a non starter of the bench to shoot technical foul free throws?
Yes, but the player being replaced cannot reenter until time runs off the clock. The player shooting the FT can be replaced after the attempts by another substitute.
That is wrong rulesman. Anyone can come in and shoot the free throws and then the player taken out can re enter before the ball is put back into play.
Quote from: WHITEchicken on May 09, 2017, 07:58:30 am
That is wrong rulesman. Anyone can come in and shoot the free throws and then the player taken out can re enter before the ball is put back into play.
Rule reference please?
Rulesman sorry about being so late. I forgot about this. I have been looking and 8-3 lets someone enter to shoot free throws, but as you said 3-3-4 says the person replaced has to wait until the clock has started to re enter. I was wrong. You were right. I apologize.
No problem. We can all learn something new everyday. In officiating, the best way to learn is by screwing something up. You'll only make that specific mistake once.