Just watch some of the Gurdon vs Mt. Ida game, those refs are BAD, VERY Bad...Feel sorry for the teams in the playoffs that get that crew..
Is that it? Good thread boss
Quote from: who-knew on November 05, 2018, 10:51:12 pm
Just watch some of the Gurdon vs Mt. Ida game, those refs are BAD, VERY Bad...Feel sorry for the teams in the playoffs that get that crew..
Refs all around 2A ball are generally worthless. I've grown accustom to the issue, as it will never likely be resolved.
One reason is 2A is usually where they train new refs also. AAA not gonna let a first time ref a Pulaski Academy game so they have to start at this level
Quote from: Bearden_Bear72 on November 06, 2018, 06:38:42 am
One reason is 2A is usually where they train new refs also. AAA not gonna let a first time ref a Pulaski Academy game so they have to start at this level
I understand having to start some where, but you need to know alittle as to what is going on. It's like there handing these license out of a Cracker Jack box.
That crew was the same crew at the Hazen/Earle game
Quote from: who-knew on November 05, 2018, 10:51:12 pm
Just watch some of the Gurdon vs Mt. Ida game, those refs are BAD, VERY Bad...Feel sorry for the teams in the playoffs that get that crew..
That crew has been around for years, they are at games usually in the 7 and 8
Quote from: godgiven999 on November 06, 2018, 07:18:20 am
That crew has been around for years, they are at games usually in the 7 and 8
I feel sorry for the 7 & 8 then, there horrible (refs), they could very well cost someone a game.
I know it was a scrimmage, but when Bearden and Earle were playing they were training new refs on sideline and some in game and it was terrible. But the test is easy to pass, might as well be a drivers test. Run same way pretty much I believe.
Quote from: Bearden_Bear72 on November 06, 2018, 07:48:55 am
I know it was a scrimmage, but when Bearden and Earle were playing they were training new refs on sideline and some in game and it was terrible. But the test is easy to pass, might as well be a drivers test. Run same way pretty much I believe.
Lol, probably so
Sounds like y'all should go help the "profession" out
Just an idea, rather than bellyaching about something do something to remedy the problem. The point has been made that the test is easy to pass so why don't some of the people that like to sit in the stands and ridicule take a stab at it themselves? It would be a perfect opportunity to give back to the community. No, I have never officiated a game nor am I related or even friends with an official, this is just another example of what's wrong with the world today. People want to sit back and complain, but do nothing to help resolve the problem. Just my thoughts.
I appreciate the refs putting in the time for very little pay; but this year I have seen some horrible calls.Maybe I can see/ spot them better, but sometimes they don't even know the right foul to call or they group up and then throw a flag because they are not sure.
My main gripe as a fan in the amount of holding that is not called, that is blatant. Plus many of these officials are very overwieght and do not move around the field well.
Most refs I've seen aren't real picky in 2a games. they let a lot of stuff go but once playoffs roll around you might get crews from different levels and that can change things
Quote from: HorseFeathers on November 06, 2018, 08:16:29 am
Sounds like y'all should go help the "profession" out
^^^^^This^^^^^
What makes a bad ref?
Missing Call?
out of Position to make calls?
Because fans see it on Saturday or Sunday and its not called Friday.
Yes as a Referee I have missed a few call over the 20 career.
I have worked all Classifications from 2A to 7A, I mainly work 4A to 6A.
One thing I can promise is that MY crew will put their best effort into the game they are working I remind them that to the Players, the school, the fan, to the communities that the game we are working tonight is the most important game in the state.
I try not to do any training on Friday night with new officials I may take one but the majority of my crew is seasoned.
I try to training on Sub varsity night, and most of the time I have 2 new officials with me during training
Holding is the one thing I hear the most complaints about
CLASSIFICATION OF HOLDING
BEAR HUG Arms around opponent
WRAP/GRAB & TURN Hands are on the outside of the shoulders and opponent is actually turned over to one side or the other
SHOULDER DIP Player may have hands inside on the chest or outside on the shoulders. When the runner passes there is a noticeable dip in the shoulders of the opponent
SHIRT STRETCH Player's hand inside on the chest, as players disengage there is a clear stretch of the shirt
PULLOVER It looks like the player is being run over by the opponent but has grabbed the shirt on the chest and has pulled the opponent down on himself
GRAB OF LEG Generally done by a player who is on the ground. He will reach out and grab the opponent's leg.
PULL AND SHOOT The pull and shoot is a tactic used by defensive players (usually linemen) designed to create a gap in the offensive line. The defensive lineman grabs the offensive lineman and pulls him to one side, allowing a teammate to rush through the opening and rush the quarterback or block a kick. It is illegal and is considered defensive holding.
YOU MUST Make sure something happens, even if a player attempts to hold but the opponent runs right through his attempt. No foul should be called
KEY FACTORS Clearly Visible: Make It Be There
See It All
Observe the blocker's disengagement (end of blocking action) with the blocker as well as the engagement (initial blocking action).
A blocker is allowed to work for and maintain his position
Release followed by a push in the back or clip, grab of the leg
POINT OF ATTACK Most holds occur at or near the point of attack
Judgment
Does the offensive blocker gain an advantage and/or put the defensive player at a disadvantage by his action?
Effect on the play
Does action of the defensive player influence offensive player technique?
Offensive holding is the most inconsistent call.
Officials must have a slow flag and see the whole play. What is foul! What is not a foul!
Offensive holding involves grabbing, encircling, twisting or pulling defenders to impede them in their effort to get at a runner or the quarterback. Defenders may push or pull offensive players if they are making a legitimate effort to get at the runner.
When the NFHS changed the rules several years ago to let offensive players use their hands more liberally in blocking the result was a lot contact at first look appears to be holding.
Officials must take into account several factors in deciding whether to throw a flag for holding:
1. Ask whether an act is potentially a foul
2. Ask whether it meets the rulebook criteria for that holding foul
3. Then if it is a foul ask whether it created an unfair advantage for the offender
It is far better to have a late flag for a holding call than for an official to call a "phantom foul." Coaches, players and observers are far more willing to accept a foul that is mistakenly not called than they are a non-foul that is called.
Point of Attack.
The first requirement for holding to be called is that it occurred at the point of attack—that is, fairly close proximity to where the runner is trying to go. It would be unwise to urge officials to never call holding if it does not occur at the point of attack. But the point of attack is the general rule of thumb.
Holding in the offensive line or backfield should not be called once the pass leaves the passer's hand, because at that point it is irrelevant to the outcome of the play.
With umpire mechanics, after the pass is thrown the umpire need to pivot so they can help the wing and deep official with catch-or-trap over the middle.
A catch or trap 10 yards from the line of scrimmage and in the middle of the field is one of the toughest calls in the game. An alert umpire who spins when the pass is thrown can save the crew by making the call himself or helping another official who has to try to make the call while looking through the receiver's back.
When reporting a holding foul to the referee and then the coach, describe the foul that was called. Such as "Number 79 twisted the defender and took him to the ground at the point of attack." If you as an official cannot describe the offensive player's act with an action verb, it most likely did not restrict the defender.
The key to calling holding is whether there was restriction involved (grabbing, encircling, twisting or pulling defenders). See it, process it. If an official is too quick with his flag, did not see the whole play or took insufficient time to process what he saw, he may erroneously call a holding foul.
Instead of throwing a flag the instant that one perceives what seems to be a hold, an official must carefully process what has occurred. Tell yourself "That's A Hold"; "That's A Hold"; "That's A Hold". If you can say "That's A Hold" three times to yourself—you probably have a holding call
I actually planned on getting certified in football, basketball, and baseball but school held me down this semester. I'm not saying the refs don't try but 2A gets Youngblood's majority of the time. One of the biggest problems I seen this year is clock management. Letting time run off when it's suppose to be stopped, play clock. I understand this is not all on the refs because they have no communication the box.
Oh by the way My Crew and I are working our first 2a game this Friday night, Not going to say where but we are looking forward to it
Just wondering bud how long you been ref?
[/quote]
Quote from: football_referee on November 06, 2018, 01:04:00 pm
What makes a bad ref?
Missing Call?
out of Position to make calls?
Because fans see it on Saturday or Sunday and its not called Friday.
Yes as a Referee I have missed a few call over the 20 career.
I have worked all Classifications from 2A to 7A, I mainly work 4A to 6A.
One thing I can promise is that MY crew will put their best effort into the game they are working I remind them that to the Players, the school, the fan, to the communities that the game we are working tonight is the most important game in the state.
I try not to do any training on Friday night with new officials I may take one but the majority of my crew is seasoned.
I try to training on Sub varsity night, and most of the time I have 2 new officials with me during training
Holding is the one thing I hear the most complaints about
CLASSIFICATION OF HOLDING
BEAR HUG Arms around opponent
WRAP/GRAB & TURN Hands are on the outside of the shoulders and opponent is actually turned over to one side or the other
SHOULDER DIP Player may have hands inside on the chest or outside on the shoulders. When the runner passes there is a noticeable dip in the shoulders of the opponent
SHIRT STRETCH Player's hand inside on the chest, as players disengage there is a clear stretch of the shirt
PULLOVER It looks like the player is being run over by the opponent but has grabbed the shirt on the chest and has pulled the opponent down on himself
GRAB OF LEG Generally done by a player who is on the ground. He will reach out and grab the opponent's leg.
PULL AND SHOOT The pull and shoot is a tactic used by defensive players (usually linemen) designed to create a gap in the offensive line. The defensive lineman grabs the offensive lineman and pulls him to one side, allowing a teammate to rush through the opening and rush the quarterback or block a kick. It is illegal and is considered defensive holding.
YOU MUST Make sure something happens, even if a player attempts to hold but the opponent runs right through his attempt. No foul should be called
KEY FACTORS Clearly Visible: Make It Be There
See It All
Observe the blocker's disengagement (end of blocking action) with the blocker as well as the engagement (initial blocking action).
A blocker is allowed to work for and maintain his position
Release followed by a push in the back or clip, grab of the leg
POINT OF ATTACK Most holds occur at or near the point of attack
Judgment
Does the offensive blocker gain an advantage and/or put the defensive player at a disadvantage by his action?
Effect on the play
Does action of the defensive player influence offensive player technique?
Offensive holding is the most inconsistent call.
Officials must have a slow flag and see the whole play. What is foul! What is not a foul!
Offensive holding involves grabbing, encircling, twisting or pulling defenders to impede them in their effort to get at a runner or the quarterback. Defenders may push or pull offensive players if they are making a legitimate effort to get at the runner.
When the NFHS changed the rules several years ago to let offensive players use their hands more liberally in blocking the result was a lot contact at first look appears to be holding.
Officials must take into account several factors in deciding whether to throw a flag for holding:
1. Ask whether an act is potentially a foul
2. Ask whether it meets the rulebook criteria for that holding foul
3. Then if it is a foul ask whether it created an unfair advantage for the offender
It is far better to have a late flag for a holding call than for an official to call a "phantom foul." Coaches, players and observers are far more willing to accept a foul that is mistakenly not called than they are a non-foul that is called.
Point of Attack.
The first requirement for holding to be called is that it occurred at the point of attack—that is, fairly close proximity to where the runner is trying to go. It would be unwise to urge officials to never call holding if it does not occur at the point of attack. But the point of attack is the general rule of thumb.
Holding in the offensive line or backfield should not be called once the pass leaves the passer's hand, because at that point it is irrelevant to the outcome of the play.
With umpire mechanics, after the pass is thrown the umpire need to pivot so they can help the wing and deep official with catch-or-trap over the middle.
A catch or trap 10 yards from the line of scrimmage and in the middle of the field is one of the toughest calls in the game. An alert umpire who spins when the pass is thrown can save the crew by making the call himself or helping another official who has to try to make the call while looking through the receiver's back.
When reporting a holding foul to the referee and then the coach, describe the foul that was called. Such as "Number 79 twisted the defender and took him to the ground at the point of attack." If you as an official cannot describe the offensive player's act with an action verb, it most likely did not restrict the defender.
The key to calling holding is whether there was restriction involved (grabbing, encircling, twisting or pulling defenders). See it, process it. If an official is too quick with his flag, did not see the whole play or took insufficient time to process what he saw, he may erroneously call a holding foul.
Instead of throwing a flag the instant that one perceives what seems to be a hold, an official must carefully process what has occurred. Tell yourself "That's A Hold"; "That's A Hold"; "That's A Hold". If you can say "That's A Hold" three times to yourself—you probably have a holding call
You sound like a very seasoned official, on the other hand there are officials that do not make the calls and it's not holding I'm talking about. You take the Gurdon / Mt. Ida game for example, ball spotting, defense lines up offside. It's more than just holding. Officials being out of position to make calls catch, no catch, linemen down field on pass plays. These calls that are made and not made could be a momentum change in the game but any good team should overcome those calls / no calls.
Quote from: football_referee on November 06, 2018, 01:04:00 pm
What makes a bad ref?
Missing Call?
out of Position to make calls?
Because fans see it on Saturday or Sunday and its not called Friday.
Yes as a Referee I have missed a few call over the 20 career.
I have worked all Classifications from 2A to 7A, I mainly work 4A to 6A.
One thing I can promise is that MY crew will put their best effort into the game they are working I remind them that to the Players, the school, the fan, to the communities that the game we are working tonight is the most important game in the state.
I try not to do any training on Friday night with new officials I may take one but the majority of my crew is seasoned.
I try to training on Sub varsity night, and most of the time I have 2 new officials with me during training
Holding is the one thing I hear the most complaints about
CLASSIFICATION OF HOLDING
BEAR HUG Arms around opponent
WRAP/GRAB & TURN Hands are on the outside of the shoulders and opponent is actually turned over to one side or the other
SHOULDER DIP Player may have hands inside on the chest or outside on the shoulders. When the runner passes there is a noticeable dip in the shoulders of the opponent
SHIRT STRETCH Player’s hand inside on the chest, as players disengage there is a clear stretch of the shirt
PULLOVER It looks like the player is being run over by the opponent but has grabbed the shirt on the chest and has pulled the opponent down on himself
GRAB OF LEG Generally done by a player who is on the ground. He will reach out and grab the opponent’s leg.
PULL AND SHOOT The pull and shoot is a tactic used by defensive players (usually linemen) designed to create a gap in the offensive line. The defensive lineman grabs the offensive lineman and pulls him to one side, allowing a teammate to rush through the opening and rush the quarterback or block a kick. It is illegal and is considered defensive holding.
YOU MUST Make sure something happens, even if a player attempts to hold but the opponent runs right through his attempt. No foul should be called
KEY FACTORS Clearly Visible: Make It Be There
See It All
Observe the blocker’s disengagement (end of blocking action) with the blocker as well as the engagement (initial blocking action).
A blocker is allowed to work for and maintain his position
Release followed by a push in the back or clip, grab of the leg
POINT OF ATTACK Most holds occur at or near the point of attack
Judgment
Does the offensive blocker gain an advantage and/or put the defensive player at a disadvantage by his action?
Effect on the play
Does action of the defensive player influence offensive player technique?
Offensive holding is the most inconsistent call.
Officials must have a slow flag and see the whole play. What is foul! What is not a foul!
Offensive holding involves grabbing, encircling, twisting or pulling defenders to impede them in their effort to get at a runner or the quarterback. Defenders may push or pull offensive players if they are making a legitimate effort to get at the runner.
When the NFHS changed the rules several years ago to let offensive players use their hands more liberally in blocking the result was a lot contact at first look appears to be holding.
Officials must take into account several factors in deciding whether to throw a flag for holding:
1. Ask whether an act is potentially a foul
2. Ask whether it meets the rulebook criteria for that holding foul
3. Then if it is a foul ask whether it created an unfair advantage for the offender
It is far better to have a late flag for a holding call than for an official to call a “phantom foul.” Coaches, players and observers are far more willing to accept a foul that is mistakenly not called than they are a non-foul that is called.
Point of Attack.
The first requirement for holding to be called is that it occurred at the point of attack—that is, fairly close proximity to where the runner is trying to go. It would be unwise to urge officials to never call holding if it does not occur at the point of attack. But the point of attack is the general rule of thumb.
Holding in the offensive line or backfield should not be called once the pass leaves the passer’s hand, because at that point it is irrelevant to the outcome of the play.
With umpire mechanics, after the pass is thrown the umpire need to pivot so they can help the wing and deep official with catch-or-trap over the middle.
A catch or trap 10 yards from the line of scrimmage and in the middle of the field is one of the toughest calls in the game. An alert umpire who spins when the pass is thrown can save the crew by making the call himself or helping another official who has to try to make the call while looking through the receiver’s back.
When reporting a holding foul to the referee and then the coach, describe the foul that was called. Such as “Number 79 twisted the defender and took him to the ground at the point of attack.” If you as an official cannot describe the offensive player’s act with an action verb, it most likely did not restrict the defender.
The key to calling holding is whether there was restriction involved (grabbing, encircling, twisting or pulling defenders). See it, process it. If an official is too quick with his flag, did not see the whole play or took insufficient time to process what he saw, he may erroneously call a holding foul.
Instead of throwing a flag the instant that one perceives what seems to be a hold, an official must carefully process what has occurred. Tell yourself “That’s A Hold”; “That’s A Hold”; “That’s A Hold”. If you can say “That’s A Hold” three times to yourself—you probably have a holding call
I wish all officials approached their games like this. I have called games for a little over 30 years and it drives me nuts some of the things I see every week. As a fan I have witnessed white hats that could not even make the proper hand signals. The one thing that really gripes me is officials that do not or will not hustle. Everyone is going to miss a call but if you can work as hard as the kids and coaches then that goes along way. Too many officials either see it as an easy paycheck and just show up (with no pregame/offseason study/prep) or have way too big of an ego and think the games are all about them. I know the AAA is basically begging people to become officials and most just don't want to put up with all the headaches.
Quote from: football_referee on November 06, 2018, 01:04:00 pm
What makes a bad ref?
Missing Call?
out of Position to make calls?
Because fans see it on Saturday or Sunday and its not called Friday.
Yes as a Referee I have missed a few call over the 20 career.
I have worked all Classifications from 2A to 7A, I mainly work 4A to 6A.
One thing I can promise is that MY crew will put their best effort into the game they are working I remind them that to the Players, the school, the fan, to the communities that the game we are working tonight is the most important game in the state.
I try not to do any training on Friday night with new officials I may take one but the majority of my crew is seasoned.
I try to training on Sub varsity night, and most of the time I have 2 new officials with me during training
Holding is the one thing I hear the most complaints about
CLASSIFICATION OF HOLDING
BEAR HUG Arms around opponent
WRAP/GRAB & TURN Hands are on the outside of the shoulders and opponent is actually turned over to one side or the other
SHOULDER DIP Player may have hands inside on the chest or outside on the shoulders. When the runner passes there is a noticeable dip in the shoulders of the opponent
SHIRT STRETCH Player's hand inside on the chest, as players disengage there is a clear stretch of the shirt
PULLOVER It looks like the player is being run over by the opponent but has grabbed the shirt on the chest and has pulled the opponent down on himself
GRAB OF LEG Generally done by a player who is on the ground. He will reach out and grab the opponent's leg.
PULL AND SHOOT The pull and shoot is a tactic used by defensive players (usually linemen) designed to create a gap in the offensive line. The defensive lineman grabs the offensive lineman and pulls him to one side, allowing a teammate to rush through the opening and rush the quarterback or block a kick. It is illegal and is considered defensive holding.
YOU MUST Make sure something happens, even if a player attempts to hold but the opponent runs right through his attempt. No foul should be called
KEY FACTORS Clearly Visible: Make It Be There
See It All
Observe the blocker's disengagement (end of blocking action) with the blocker as well as the engagement (initial blocking action).
A blocker is allowed to work for and maintain his position
Release followed by a push in the back or clip, grab of the leg
POINT OF ATTACK Most holds occur at or near the point of attack
Judgment
Does the offensive blocker gain an advantage and/or put the defensive player at a disadvantage by his action?
Effect on the play
Does action of the defensive player influence offensive player technique?
Offensive holding is the most inconsistent call.
Officials must have a slow flag and see the whole play. What is foul! What is not a foul!
Offensive holding involves grabbing, encircling, twisting or pulling defenders to impede them in their effort to get at a runner or the quarterback. Defenders may push or pull offensive players if they are making a legitimate effort to get at the runner.
When the NFHS changed the rules several years ago to let offensive players use their hands more liberally in blocking the result was a lot contact at first look appears to be holding.
Officials must take into account several factors in deciding whether to throw a flag for holding:
1. Ask whether an act is potentially a foul
2. Ask whether it meets the rulebook criteria for that holding foul
3. Then if it is a foul ask whether it created an unfair advantage for the offender
It is far better to have a late flag for a holding call than for an official to call a "phantom foul." Coaches, players and observers are far more willing to accept a foul that is mistakenly not called than they are a non-foul that is called.
Point of Attack.
The first requirement for holding to be called is that it occurred at the point of attack—that is, fairly close proximity to where the runner is trying to go. It would be unwise to urge officials to never call holding if it does not occur at the point of attack. But the point of attack is the general rule of thumb.
Holding in the offensive line or backfield should not be called once the pass leaves the passer's hand, because at that point it is irrelevant to the outcome of the play.
With umpire mechanics, after the pass is thrown the umpire need to pivot so they can help the wing and deep official with catch-or-trap over the middle.
A catch or trap 10 yards from the line of scrimmage and in the middle of the field is one of the toughest calls in the game. An alert umpire who spins when the pass is thrown can save the crew by making the call himself or helping another official who has to try to make the call while looking through the receiver's back.
When reporting a holding foul to the referee and then the coach, describe the foul that was called. Such as "Number 79 twisted the defender and took him to the ground at the point of attack." If you as an official cannot describe the offensive player's act with an action verb, it most likely did not restrict the defender.
The key to calling holding is whether there was restriction involved (grabbing, encircling, twisting or pulling defenders). See it, process it. If an official is too quick with his flag, did not see the whole play or took insufficient time to process what he saw, he may erroneously call a holding foul.
Instead of throwing a flag the instant that one perceives what seems to be a hold, an official must carefully process what has occurred. Tell yourself "That's A Hold"; "That's A Hold"; "That's A Hold". If you can say "That's A Hold" three times to yourself—you probably have a holding call
[/quote]Thank you for your insight and knowledge. I am grateful for you giving up your family and friends so we can enjoy our Friday nights of football. Once again thank you and others for your officiating.....
Just my opinion, but a lot of how I have seen some groups of officials judged is how they interact with the coaches. Coaches are trying to do their job. Their job is to win football games. Protesting calls, no calls, etc is/should be a given for an official to expect. Especially the guys on the sidelines. However, I have seen some of them get downright nasty with coaches. Simply put, will not listen to anything, they are smart mouthed to coaches, have a chip on their shoulder, and seemingly refuse to be civil. I know that goes both ways, coaches to officials and officials to coaches...
Quote from: HorseFeathers on November 06, 2018, 08:16:29 am
Sounds like y'all should go help the "profession" out
http://highschoolofficials.com/
And that link is legit. The AAA shared it on their Facebook site.
I am working on 20 years.
In my years of basketball coaching, I tended to believe that calls were going against me. Then as I got deeper into my coaching career, my father told me to really study the tapes and pay attention to the officiating to see if it, in fact, was going against my teams. When I did, I found that it was very rare that we were getting the shaft. What I found was that they were calling a game either great, mediocre, or poorly but it was about even most of the time (there were actually a few exceptions; maybe 3 or 4 in 31 years). Then I went into administration and was in charge at a regional tournament. I sat on the home side and heard all of their complaining about the officials cheating them and all the calls going against them; then I got called by the officials to the visitor side to toss fans; when I sat on that side all I heard was how they were being cheated and all the calls were going against them. Finally, I have officiated (other sports and at other levels in basketball) hundreds of games in parts of the past four decades and realize that no matter how much I know the rules, am in shape and work to be in position, and focus, that I am still going to miss some calls. Human factor. But it will never be intentional.
I realized that the perception is basically always there that officials are calling bad against their team. I hate that but my years have shown it to be true in many cases.
I still believe there are poor officials but I also believe the majority are trying to do a good job to the best of their respective abilities. I like HF's and Cuz's philosophy. If you don't like it, go get a license and be part of the solution.
Just my take on it.
Quote from: football_referee on November 06, 2018, 02:48:28 pm
I am working on 20 years.
My question is, if one ref sees something one way, and one or 2 see it a different way, will yall huddle, discuss it and go with what yall determine to be the correct call?
Quote from: RATTLER43 on November 06, 2018, 03:33:26 pm
In my years of basketball coaching, I tended to believe that calls were going against me. Then as I got deeper into my coaching career, my father told me to really study the tapes and pay attention to the officiating to see if it, in fact, was going against my teams. When I did, I found that it was very rare that we were getting the shaft. What I found was that they were calling a game either great, mediocre, or poorly but it was about even most of the time (there were actually a few exceptions; maybe 3 or 4 in 31 years). Then I went into administration and was in charge at a regional tournament. I sat on the home side and heard all of their complaining about the officials cheating them and all the calls going against them; then I got called by the officials to the visitor side to toss fans; when I sat on that side all I heard was how they were being cheated and all the calls were going against them. Finally, I have officiated (other sports and at other levels in basketball) hundreds of games in parts of the past four decades and realize that no matter how much I know the rules, am in shape and work to be in position, and focus, that I am still going to miss some calls. Human factor. But it will never be intentional.
I realized that the perception is basically always there that officials are calling bad against their team. I hate that but my years have shown it to be true in many cases.
I still believe there are poor officials but I also believe the majority are trying to do a good job to the best of their respective abilities. I like HF's and Cuz's philosophy. If you don't like it, go get a license and be part of the solution.
Just my take on it.
I agree, majority go into every game prepared and as a game plays out one side or the other will see the job those men are doing differently. As long as there is sports we will always have happy on one side and mad/upset on the other. When I used to Ump baseball in a tight game the yellers always out number the clappers.
Sometimes i yell at the refs just to keep them on their toes
Yea we all do Dawg
I like to tell them to call it like i see it
Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on November 06, 2018, 03:55:38 pm
My question is, if one ref sees something one way, and one or 2 see it a different way, will yall huddle, discuss it and go with what yall determine to be the correct call?
On my crew yes we do. I as Referee may have one angle of the view. And the guys working the line may have some different view. We will get together and and talk about it. Sometimes it looks bad on the crew but the ultimate goal is to get the call right and if it take a conference to get it right then so be it. But if the crew continues to have multiple conferences during a game then that too has a negative effect on a crew. I also have late flags some of my late flags come about after I play the play over in my head. The one foul that 99% of the time I will always have a late flag is intentional grounding. And it's the one flag that I tell my guys that is my foul to call and you are not to call it. The reasoning. Behind why I want to be the one to call an IG is this in passing mode my #1 priority is the passer if the passer throws the ball and there is no receiver in the area I first must determine if the ball was tipped if the ball was tipped and it falls into a zone that their is no eligible receiver you don't have IG and the officials that have the receivers are not suppose to be watching the Passer if he is not in their zone of coverage. Next I have the passer until the pass is thrown and he gets into a position where he can defend himself. I rarely know what happens downfield I depend on my crew to let me know the status caughtor incomplete and if incomplete was a receiver in the area. If the officials thinks their could have been a chance to catch the ball then no flag. If they say no receiver in the area I asked one and that question is are you sure? And if the answer is yes then out comes the flag.
Guy and Gals officiating is not difficult know you keys, know your zones, expect the unexpected hustle, be in good position this is important see everything you call but don't call everything you see is that back side hold on bubba who weighs 300lbs and in a race with a snail on a salt field will finish last going to get to the opposite side of the field and catch that world class sprinter
I try to catch all fouls that are safety related yes I will miss some from time to time
Thanks for the response. I would rather have a little huddle and get it right as opposed to getting it wrong because no one else would speak up. Seen it both ways. Good luck with whatever game you call Friday.
I will take about officiating all day. I will not bash crews. I will not name crews and I will give opinion on what and how you explain it.
I would prefer film to look at if possible.
And if you just really have to get stuff off your chest don't do it here in a open forum. Pm me.
I have big shoulders and as a public servent LT on my Fire department I can handle anything thrown my was
Thanks man. I glad to be working on Friday night For me it all about the fans,the communities and the players. My goal as a crew chief is to get in get out and nobody know our names fans coaches and players are the ones people comes to see not the 5-6 zebras with the yellow hankies
I think they should pay more then maybe have more refs to choose from if you do it for money it's not really worth it I thought about doing it but money not worth the hassle my hat off to those guys
Quote from: DnA Prostaff on November 06, 2018, 02:17:28 pm
Just my opinion, but a lot of how I have seen some groups of officials judged is how they interact with the coaches. Coaches are trying to do their job. Their job is to win football games. Protesting calls, no calls, etc is/should be a given for an official to expect. Especially the guys on the sidelines. However, I have seen some of them get downright nasty with coaches. Simply put, will not listen to anything, they are smart mouthed to coaches, have a chip on their shoulder, and seemingly refuse to be civil. I know that goes both ways, coaches to officials and officials to coaches...
I've worked on the(chain-gang) several years. What I witness mostly by FAR and AWAY is Coaches that are disrespectful, loud mouthed, cursing toward the officials! Good thing I'm not a zebra because there would be a shortage on coaches ;)
Quote from: wiseguy on November 07, 2018, 08:26:37 am
I've worked on the(chain-gang) several years. What I witness mostly by FAR and AWAY is Coaches that are disrespectful, loud mouthed, cursing toward the officials! Good thing I'm not a zebra because there would be a shortage on coaches ;)
like I said, it goes both ways.....
Never officiated football as just no interest but have officiated basketball and umpired. Seems guys who work football have told me they have crews that are pretty much kept intact and that probably helps.
In basketball, I occasionally worked with the same guys but most of the time I worked with people I didn't know and baseball was nearly always that way.
The biggest problem I had in both baseball and basketball was lack of hustle by my partner in baseball and the other 2 in basketball and being out of position. I was umpiring with a guy who made a correct call but was way out of position due to lack of hustle and the coach on the short end went ballistic because he was out of position. Afterwards, I discussed with him the fact if you are in the correct position to make the call and miss it, the coach may grumble but you can defend your call. If you are out of position due to lack of hustle, even if you get it right, you put yourself in a position to be questioned. If you are going to be on the field, hustle and do the job.
Hate to paint with a broad brush but too many of these guys are in it solely for the money (which really isn't much) and are just in a hurry to finish. I walked onto a baseball field one day with a guy I had never met. When the home coach greeted us the first question of of my "partner's" mouth was "Where do we get the paperwork?" I was mortified. When we got back to the dressing room I told him if we ever worked together again and he asks that question first rattle out of the box he may find himself alone on the field. And of course he wanted the plate and then he left me hung out to dry on 2 calls at 3rd that should have been his that I had to make due to his lack of hustle and I'm confident I missed them both.
When I see facemask and Horse collar right in front of a ref I get upset. Anything that could be a injury maker should have zero tolerance.JMO
The state of officiating in arkansas HS football is very very low. The most frustrating thing to me is when i see an obvious foul and im certain the official right in front of me sees it but no flag. Then when asked by the coach his response is "thats not my cal, coach". I do chains so these fouls are against my team. Its the opposong coach asking. Now, my son plays college ball and there are times i have seen 3 flags fly for the same foul. Im certain there was one of the 3 that had the responsibily for that part pf the field but all 3 are getting paid to create a fair environment and intend to do that so they call the penalty when they see it. HS crews seem to be more worried about hurting their drinkin buddys feelings as opposed to dping exactly what they are getting paid to do. But hey, whatever. I tell my boys that the refs suck so quit whining about it and play the game. Typically they suck both ways. All this is general but would apply to probably 70 percent of the crews out there.
You get what you pay for if you want better refs hit your pocket and up their pay if money is there then the talent will rise
Great crew in England last night. Gotta give credit where its due. It was a crew ive never seen. Some guys from the river valley.
Quote from: bigworm on November 10, 2018, 08:52:59 am
Great crew in England last night. Gotta give credit where its due. It was a crew ive never seen. Some guys from the river valley.
Great crew at Hazen as well
The crew at des arc only threw 3 or 4 flags last night. 1 for a sideline warning on our coach, 1 on m.c. for pushing a d.a. player in the back after the play was over, and 1 for a d.a. player pushing a m.c. player after the play. That's all I can remember, may have been one more.
They missed an obvious p.i. on m.c. tackling our reciever, but we scored a couple plays later so no harm. May be the first game I've ever been to that no offsides or holding penalties were called. They let them play.
I thought it was a great crew other than the one official on our side telling the players to stay behind the box line, when there was no line, it was mud.
Let's not forget to blame the fans that think they saw something, but what they saw didn't really happen and they just wished it did.
3 things/careers/jobs that everyone is an expert in:
1. Law enforcement
2. Coaching
3. Officiating
Not any particular order
Hey guys just for fun
A has the ball 3rd and goal from the 8. A drops back to pass and B intercepts at the 2 yard line. After B intercepts B commits a personal foul in the end zone. Ball was returned for a touchdown
What do you have?
Guess #1: penalty in end zone while in possession is safety?
Guess #2: half the distance to the goal. Ball at 1 yard line for intercepting team.
Guess #3: penalty negates interception and it is first and goal after marking off yardage.
... and those were the only three fans I could hear during all the argument over how it should be called!!!
you are right its a Safety
I am on another officiating board
In another state in a playoff game the crew missed it
they went from the end of the run
I think heard a 4th say touchback
Quote from: Old Scrapper on November 10, 2018, 07:35:33 pm
I think heard a 4th say touchback
I didn't think the 4th guy knew what he was talking about
Quote from: football_referee on November 10, 2018, 07:35:11 pm
you are right its a Safety
I am on another officiating board
In another state in a playoff game the crew missed it
they went from the end of the run
Just curious as to what your opinion is on referees calling games where their relatives (nephew) was a player. Also, would you approve of the white hat referee standing in and participating in the home team's spirit line before the game?
That happened to us two years ago and our entire fan base in the bleachers saw it. We knew we were gonna get hosed and we did! Two, TWO, of the other officials told our coach that the white hat was out to get us......and he did.
What could be done to prevent this from happening?
Just so football_referee is not alone...you could create an interesting post titled "Bad Coaches/Bad Fans/Bad Hospitality" and it would cover the other side of the coin!
Some still do a good job and keep it classy but more and more are switching sides and I have a list of places I'd rather not spend my Friday nights.
Just saying.
Quote from: football_referee on November 10, 2018, 07:20:01 pm
Hey guys just for fun
A has the ball 3rd and goal from the 8. A drops back to pass and B intercepts at the 2 yard line. After B intercepts B commits a personal foul in the end zone. Ball was returned for a touchdown
What do you have?
my guess would be that the penalty is enforced on the kickoff. Team B committed the penalty after the play. Touchdown stands.
My biggest problem isn't really missed calls or anything like that. I have seen in more than one game this year where they have let them go too long before blowing a whistle. I am really surprised that there haven't been more injuries. I have seen them stack a kid up and drive him backwards 7-10 yards before the refs blow the whistle. And letting little cheap shots go early on, then it turns in to a melee because the kids are frustrated and retaliating. I just hate to see kids get hurt needlessly.
I have some questions myself. Who holds the AAA accountable? From what I have learned recently is they are an Independent organization. I emailed them about 2 months ago after I tried calling and have yet to get a reply.I have never tried to contact them before but I kinda have this feeling that they aren't held accountable for their actions and thumb their nose to whomever they choose.
Quote from: Bulldogfan101 on November 26, 2018, 08:42:32 pm
I have some questions myself. Who holds the AAA accountable? From what I have learned recently is they are an Independent organization. I emailed them about 2 months ago after I tried calling and have yet to get a reply.I have never tried to contact them before but I kinda have this feeling that they aren't held accountable for their actions and thumb their nose to whomever they choose.
As a fan you will NOT get a response from the AAA on anything, especially officiating. They answer to the schools and if there is an issue with the way a game is officiated, it is up to the AD of the school or HC of the team to file a complaint.
Well....The school is the actual member or the organization, not the fans 🤷
Individuals who have a problem with officiating could look into becoming one, I hear it's an open book test
I appreciate the replies. But I have read more than once... "If you don't like it? Be one it's an open book test". Let's get some things straight. I am no more going to flip burgers at McDonald's because I am not pleased with the service than I am going to be a Ref. I pay for the schools that these games are played at and I pay to get into the game. Which is where the AAA gets their money. I really hate that some don't think that as a Customer of the AAA I and every other fan/customer should Not be able to ask a question about the service rendered. But I will quote something a Boss told me once. "You choose to do this for a living! I didn't!".
Quote from: Bulldogfan101 on November 29, 2018, 09:46:33 pm
I appreciate the replies. But I have read more than once... "If you don't like it? Be one it's an open book test". Let's get some things straight. I am no more going to flip burgers at McDonald's because I am not pleased with the service than I am going to be a Ref. I pay for the schools that these games are played at and I pay to get into the game. Which is where the AAA gets their money. I really hate that some don't think that as a Customer of the AAA I and every other fan/customer should Not be able to ask a question about the service rendered. But I will quote something a Boss told me once. "You choose to do this for a living! I didn't!".
What I would do then is go see Don Brodell or Lance Taylor at:
3920 Richards Road
North Little Rock, 72117
I would suggest starting with Don. His desk is to the left after you enter. He is very welcoming to any suggestions you might have and will listen intently to your concerns. Heck he may even take notes and bring them up in the next AOA meeting or clinic to get feedback. He might even take your suggestions and implement them ASAP. He's a wonderful guy. Yeah, I would try that first.
POWERCAT PRIDE... I would hope that these guys are good guys! They do decide a lot of things that pertain to the students of the great state of Arkansas. But what I am really getting from your post is nothing short of arrogance. That Sir is a shame! See all I am saying is if the Public has questions? They should have a way to ask them. Yes I understand that some people just can't be civil and can't blame anyone for not wanting to deal with them. But on the other hand. I or anyone else should not feel that I am trying to deal with a drug cartel and that is what you're trying to imply with your post. Education is the key and if people could ask questions freely? Then everyone is better off. Have a good night!
Quote from: Bulldogfan101 on November 29, 2018, 09:46:33 pm
I appreciate the replies. But I have read more than once... "If you don't like it? Be one it's an open book test". Let's get some things straight. I am no more going to flip burgers at McDonald's because I am not pleased with the service than I am going to be a Ref. I pay for the schools that these games are played at and I pay to get into the game. Which is where the AAA gets their money. I really hate that some don't think that as a Customer of the AAA I and every other fan/customer should Not be able to ask a question about the service rendered. But I will quote something a Boss told me once. "You choose to do this for a living! I didn't!".
The problem is a bunch of them are like people I've worked with...they don't take pride in the work they do..
I still think that most of the people I hear griping about refs at games should pick up abhigh school rule book...they'd be shocked
That's exactly what I am saying. Maybe if the fans were better educated. Including myself there would be less discontent. I am not a know it all. I am not a Ref like most fans. I know my job and I know it well but I have no idea about being a Ref or many other occupations.
I'm not a ref nor do I think I'd handle the verbalbabuse they take a lot nights as well as they do...I'd toss a lot of fans, players and coaches I think 😂🤷