Does anyone know how this works out for the Conference Tournament seeding for 5A West...
5A/6A District 1 has Harrison, Alma, Farmington and Clarksville
5A/6A District 2 Has Greenbrier, Vilonia and Morrilton
Maumelle is in a totally different district than the others... I looked for a rule in the AAA and could find nothing??? As of right now, would they be seeded #2 in the West because of their record, though they have not played a match against anyone in their "Conference/District"??? Just trying to figure this new conference/District stuff out and any input would be appreciated!!!
Your particular situation might be different but in the 4A West it is my understanding that there will be a coaches' meeting after all the combined conference play is over. Our conference schools are in two different districts. I'm sure each team will have arguments why they should be seeded in a particular position.
I just thought most were in 2 "divisions" and then the 4 in each division would be seeded based on their divisions. But, in this case, one is out of the norm... :)
We are unequally split. Three of our teams (Booneville, Mena, Waldron) are in one combined conference and the other five(Fountain Lake, Arkadelphia, Ashdown, Malvern, Bauxite) are in the other.
That is the case in most of the combined conferences. Your situation, with that one outlier, could get hairy.
I took a look at Maumelle's schedule. They have played three of the 5A West schools. Lost to Greenbrier and Vilonia and beat Morrilton. Their combined conference has two really good schools (PA and LR Christian), one decent one (Sylvan Hills, which they have beaten) and four lesser teams.
Just from what I've heard, Maumelle would have their hands full with Harrison and probably Alma too. Farmington is not bad, but Clarksville isn't strong.
I totally agree with all of your observations and input. I just wonder how a team that does not have normally scheduled (and who knows they might be) conference/district scheduled matches could be judged and seeded against others in their "conference/district". I would think there should be a rule out there as to how to do it and there should be a rule as t how the seeding "plays out". It would only make sense and be fair to the other teams. I could see this in the future causing problems and unfair seeding. I appreciate your thoughts! I didn't even notice that they had played other conference teams...I was just looking at their current conference record.
I did just notice that they really are 1-2 against their true conference as you have stated that they played, yet 6-3 in their designated conference that really should not count toward seeding...Ha. Doesn't really matter to me- but it could to some. :)
Quote from: GoldenArks on September 28, 2016, 11:11:32 pm
I totally agree with all of your observations and input. I just wonder how a team that does not have normally scheduled (and who knows they might be) conference/district scheduled matches could be judged and seeded against others in their "conference/district". I would think there should be a rule out there as to how to do it and there should be a rule as t how the seeding "plays out". It would only make sense and be fair to the other teams. I could see this in the future causing problems and unfair seeding. I appreciate your thoughts! I didn't even notice that they had played other conference teams...I was just looking at their current conference record.
In our conference/district, fortunately we are in a position to have played or at least seen the other teams in tournaments through the season. This will give us some idea about who should fall where.
Based on their body of work, I don't see Maumelle getting any higher than a #3 or #4 seed, probably #4 would be appropriate.
5A West District Tournament Bracket-
https://d1wsaxfu7b8rcr.cloudfront.net/22a8ec9a-d83a-4aff-b3c6-e39cda9403b7/16%20District%20Tournament%20-%20Sheet1%20%281%29.pdf (https://d1wsaxfu7b8rcr.cloudfront.net/22a8ec9a-d83a-4aff-b3c6-e39cda9403b7/16%20District%20Tournament%20-%20Sheet1%20%281%29.pdf)
Hope I entered the hyperlink correctly!
First round-
Alma defeats Maumelle 3-0 (25-20, 25-17, 25-16)
Farmington defeats Greenbrier 3-2 (16-25, 25-17, 29-31, 25-17, 15-7)
Harrison defeats Morrilton 3-0 (25-15, 25-11, 25-8)
Vilonia defeats Clarksville 3-0 (25-14, 25-8, 25-8)
Well now, Farmington over Greenbrier is a bit of a surprise - but I say that not having had the opportunity to see Farmington this year. From the scores, it certainly looked to be nip and tuck - anyone at this match that could share a thought or two?
It really was a good game. I thought Greenbrier would dominate after watching the first set. They were hitting on all cylinders. They have a couple of girls that could hit that ball. But, Farmington came right back in the second set with Greenbrier starting to make some errors and some of the Farmington girls stepping up. The #17 on Farmington is a good player for her smaller size. The third set was a good one, as you can see by the score. Farmington had their chances to win the third set- they had, I believe two chances to win it when they missed serves a both times. I do not know what sparked Farmington after that third set, but it was all them from there on. If I remember right, they went up something like 13-1 right off the bat in the fourth set. They were just a scrappy team and had some good hits going down. Same thing in the 5th set- Greenbrier had no answers in those last two sets....
Vilonia defeats Alma 3-1 (16-25, 25-13, 25-22, 25-13)
Harrison defeats Farmington 3-1 (24-26, 25-17, 25-21, 26-24)
Just want to add- I have watched VB for around 12 years. 7 years high level club in there.
Worst officiating I have ever seen by far. I really wonder if the up-ref had ever reffed in her life.
Then a line official continually not knowing who touched balls, but kept swearing she heard something...
Quote from: GoldenArks on October 18, 2016, 08:58:31 pm
Harrison defeats Farmington 3-1 (24-26, 25-17, 25-21, 26-24)
Just want to add- I have watched VB for around 12 years. 7 years high level club in there.
Worst officiating I have ever seen by far. I really wonder if the up-ref had ever reffed in her life.
Then a line official continually not knowing who touched balls, but kept swearing she heard something...
Two points I'll offer on this:
- The conference tournaments were a problem for many reasons but among them was the fact that host locations were not set long before the start of the volleyball season. Given that no one knew where the location of the conference tournament would be, officials were likely not contracted - which increases the likelihood that a host sight will get whatever referee is available versus trying to get the best (or even better) referees. Also, throw in the possibility that once a location was set, and the host school was responsible for getting referees, you can bet the host school would look no further than the first available referees they knew - there was no way the many conference tournaments were staffed with the best officials possible.
- Good linesmen assist the referee crew in detecting tips - but in the end, it is the referee's call (R1). When linesmen hear a tip, and referees know there were players in that area (I'm thinking of a collective block situation here)they may not legitimately be able to tell which player tipped a ball, but they know someone involved in the collective block did. In that situation, I can't see a problem but since I wasn't at the game, I don't know if this correctly describes what you are referring to. At a minimum, if there was doubt, I hope the referee and linesmen had a brief chat, made the decision and carried on.
If L1 or L2 ever say they heard a tip, they should remove themselves from the court! That's as bad as a official calling 2 touches because of ball rotation. You either see it or you don't.
3n2,
I respectfully disagree with you on this and I would point you back to the collective block scenario described above. Are you saying you would NOT call a tip when you can't specifically identify the offending party?
This match went waaaay beyond a bad call on one tip. They could not identify who touched over and over. They had a hard time advising who went in net on calls. I have a video of a hit from a RS on a set that went right to the pin and the ball went down in the middle of the court. Right in front of the up-ref, the line judge called it outside the antenna - seriously, right in front of the up-ref. She just looked at the line judge and called it out (I believe on match point). Then, on the next match point, the hitter did hit one that was going out- almost hit the back row defensive player in the head and she hit it with her arms- the line judge called it out... no tip. same one that "heard" things all night. Most unfortunate night for volleyball. The same line ref would call the ball out before the ball would even cross the half-way part of the floor. Many times saw her call a tip and then when the team on her side would not argue- she would lower her arms. it was bad....just plain bad. It will be interesting if the same crew for tomorrow night.
Alma defeats Farmington 3-1 (25-17, 14-25, 25-14, 25-12)
A line judge must give the crossed arm signal if they do not see a touch. They can't go by an assumption of something heard or a funny spin or bounce. A partner of mine,one night during intermission , told R1 he called the touch because heard it. I didn't think we were going back out on the court because of his comment. If you don't see it don't call it. Let R1 make a decision.
Harrison defeats Vilonia 3-1 (25-5, 19-25, 25-18, 25-23)
5A West seeds-
#1 Harrison
#2 Vilonia
#3 Alma
#4 Farmington
I wanted to add that the officiating was excellent tonight in both matches.