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SPECIAL REPORT........Earle is forfeiting all varsity football games

Started by Lanny, November 30, 2017, 03:45:36 pm

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FilmCrew

Don't cry to long for Mineral Springs..They had a player a couple of years ago that lived in Nashville and Played for Mineral. It came to light late in the playoffs but they allowed him to play because the school that turned them in knew in the beginning of the year but didn't turn them in until the playoffs.

So.... That Karma thing strikes again!

whoknows

Should be a requirement for schools to show proof before the season that players are eligible to prevent these things...paper trail...

Eslim03

Quote from: CHG Hornet on November 30, 2017, 07:38:07 pm
Not sure what the best fair way to fix this is.  I wouldn't agree with just giving Foreman a free pass, but I think Mineral Springs is getting hosed too.  I think I would have seen how soon Mineral Springs and Salem could be ready to play each other, then let the winner go to Foreman.  I also see where Marked Tree got hosed out of a home playoff game instead of having to go to #1 Mt. Ida. 

The solution may be that there's not a good solution.  Earle's errors have affected so many people.  Not a good situation.

It has also affected your game... shame on earle's coach

Bildo

Question...  Do you think they would've self reported if the state had NOT taken over? Wonder if this is going on in basketball also?🤔

Markadomous

Several players were 21 years old. But no matter Foreman was gonna take em to the woodshed

HorseFeathers

Quote from: Markadomous on November 30, 2017, 08:07:30 pm
Several players were 21 years old. But no matter Foreman was gonna take em to the woodshed

Wait...what?

beach bum

Quote from: HorseFeathers on November 30, 2017, 07:43:51 pm
Only way to really fix this error is to start involving legitimate fines to the schools....

Agreed.... +1

HG Hornet

Quote from: Markadomous on November 30, 2017, 08:07:30 pm
Several players were 21 years old. But no matter Foreman was gonna take em to the woodshed
I thought the law was that once a "student" turns 21, they cannot attend high school anymore.......or maybe that's what this whole thing is about. 

Wonderdog

So is it false that a Marion coach turned them in? Because that is what I have been hearing. Which would explain the earlier post about Earle not participating in Marion bball tournaments anymore as well as the whole "Marion is gonna pay" comment.

Wonderdog

Quote from: nightowl on November 30, 2017, 05:56:25 pm
Marion  School  district  will pay for this one . We  will never play in there tournaments again there money maker game
This is the post I am referencing.

SWAT11

There isn't an easy fix. Not at all. They have been handed a turd on a plate. They cannot possibly go back to the beginning of conference or make it absolutely 100% fair to everyone. This is truly a despicable ordeal created by Earl. It has sent a tidal wave across the entire AA State. They knew he was ineligible. Now AAA has made their decision on how to handle it. We have to role on from here. Because any other decisions they could have made would be equally contested as this one. I sincerely hate it for all the kids. Character, or lack there of, has caused this.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: CHG Hornet on November 30, 2017, 08:17:09 pm
I thought the law was that once a "student" turns 21, they cannot attend high school anymore.......or maybe that's what this whole thing is about. 

Who says they actually attended class?

bleudog

Quote from: HorseFeathers on November 30, 2017, 07:43:51 pm
Only way to really fix this error is to start involving legitimate fines to the schools....

"Rule 3.  PENALTY FOR USE OF INELIGIBLE PLAYER. 
The use of any ineligible participant/student in any interscholastic contest will result in one or more of the following actions based upon the facts and findings:
A.Forfeiture of the contest
B.The specific sport during which the ineligible player was used will be placed on probation status for up
to one (1) calendar year
C.The ineligible participant/student may be suspended from further competition and any activity, as
determined by the Executive Director
D.The school may be fined up to $500.00

In determining the penalty concerning the use of an ineligible participant/student, the Executive Director
may consider whether the participant/student had a significant impact on the game.  What is a significant
impact will vary with the sport and circumstances of the contest; however, such facts as follows will be
among the items considered:
A.Amount of participation
B.Whether the ineligible participant/student scored points or participated in other plays that had an
impact on the winning or losing of the game.
C.What the school could have or should have known
D.Whether a school self reports

If the ineligible participant/student has provided the school false information upon which the student was
certified to have been eligible, a penalty against the school may be set aside or modified.  However, in the
cases of transfer students, where legitimate errors or omissions in the official school transcript as received
are proved, such player must be withdrawn from participation upon discovery of the error without penalty
to the school.

Ineligible players may not dress out for interscholastic competitions."

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2016-17_AAA_Handbook_abs.pdf

HorseFeathers

Quote from: bleudog on November 30, 2017, 08:23:07 pm
"Rule 3.  PENALTY FOR USE OF INELIGIBLE PLAYER. 
The use of any ineligible participant/student in any interscholastic contest will result in one or more of the following actions based upon the facts and findings:
A.Forfeiture of the contest
B.The specific sport during which the ineligible player was used will be placed on probation status for up
to one (1) calendar year
C.The ineligible participant/student may be suspended from further competition and any activity, as
determined by the Executive Director
D.The school may be fined up to $500.00

In determining the penalty concerning the use of an ineligible participant/student, the Executive Director
may consider whether the participant/student had a significant impact on the game.  What is a significant
impact will vary with the sport and circumstances of the contest; however, such facts as follows will be
among the items considered:
A.Amount of participation
B.Whether the ineligible participant/student scored points or participated in other plays that had an
impact on the winning or losing of the game.
C.What the school could have or should have known
D.Whether a school self reports

If the ineligible participant/student has provided the school false information upon which the student was
certified to have been eligible, a penalty against the school may be set aside or modified.  However, in the
cases of transfer students, where legitimate errors or omissions in the official school transcript as received
are proved, such player must be withdrawn from participation upon discovery of the error without penalty
to the school.

Ineligible players may not dress out for interscholastic competitions."

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2016-17_AAA_Handbook_abs.pdf

If Earle actually had home fans show up, I'd say that's a slap on the wrist payable just from concessions....anyway, should increase that fine some...$500 doesn't seem like much if a deterrent...

But then again Earle did misplace 2 million dollars, which is why the state took them over....

Champ74

Quote from: HorseFeathers on November 30, 2017, 07:00:30 pm
Went and dug up the thread....In that case player in question had used up her elgibilility because the 8 semester clock had run out(she played varsity basketball in Alaska in the 8th grade) and appeal was filed after the semifinals game (which she dropped 40 on #1 team in state), and AAA ruled that Conway could play on finals, but the player was now inelgible and had to sit.

Same year, Guy-Perkins girls got pulled out of either district or region tournament for same thing, having to forfeit the year.

Believe the Lamar case people have referenced on this thread...Kids we're ruled elgible, then AAA backtracked and ruled them inelgible, which caused Lamar to get the court system involved...

Always interesting to see the AAA history of flipping flopping how they handle stuff...

I've read a lot of negative comments about our program and I've even heard several flat out lies, people are pointing the finger and making excuses. Bottom line is that this is a issue of the 8 Semester clock and these things have to get checked and double checked. Regardless of what anyone has to say or think, the man I know as our Head Coach and Assistant Coaches would never risk their season by knowingly playing an ineligible player.

Old Scrapper

Quote from: Champ74 on November 30, 2017, 08:27:25 pm
I've read a lot of negative comments about our program and I've even heard several flat out lies, people are pointing the finger and making excuses. Bottom line is that this is a issue of the 8 Semester clock and these things have to get checked and double checked. Regardless of what anyone has to say or think, the man I know as our Head Coach and Assistant Coaches would never risk their season by knowingly playing an ineligible player.
props for showing up! Thought all you guys were in witness protection by now!

Bildo

The problem is the "appearance of impropriety ". The school has been taken over by the state, money is missing and kids are playing sports that are ineligible. That may be the end of it all but you can bet that if I was doing the investigation... I would be digging deeper. Jus sayin

bleudog

Quote from: hornets23byers on November 30, 2017, 03:57:53 pm
Eligibility was already up ...

Rule 7.  SEMESTERS.
A.Junior High. A student has six semesters of opportunity for eligibility.  A student repeating either the
seventh or eighth grade for any reason shall not have the opportunity for eligibility during the complete
year that is repeated.

B. Senior High. A student is limited to eight consecutive semesters of opportunity for eligibility
beginning with the student's first enrollment in the ninth grade (or earlier as defined in Rule 8. Age,
Note).
Note 1: A ninth grade student may compete for the junior high or for the senior high in the same
member school district with separate campuses with permission from the involved principals. (Refer to
Bylaws, Art. II, Section 7, Rule 1 - Classification of Students.)
Note 2: A student first entering an AAA member school at the beginning of the tenth grade shall have
six consecutive semesters of opportunity for eligibility; at the beginning of the 11
thgrade shall have four consecutive semesters of eligibility; and, at the beginning of the 12th
grade shall have two consecutive semesters of opportunity for eligibility.
1. If a ninth grade student competes for the junior high, the student may then compete at the senior
high level after the completion of that junior high sport season. A ninth grade student may not
compete for the senior high and return later to compete for the junior high in the same sport.
2. Semesters are applied toward the limitations regardless of the following:
a. if the school doesn't offer a sport; or
b .if the student doesn't participate, or
c. if the student isn't eligible; or
d. if the student's earlier enrollment was in a different school system.
NOTE: The fifth and sixth semesters (normally the 9th grade) are applied toward both the junior
and senior high limitations. This is due to the rule allowing the school's administration to permit a
9th grade student to participate at either level. (Refer to Bylaws, Art.II, Section 7, Rule 1 - Classification of Students).
3. A 7th or 8th grade student who is ineligible for junior high athletics due only to the age rule may be
eligible to participate in senior high. (Refer to Bylaws, Art. II, Section 7, Rule 1 -Classification of Students.)
4. A student is limited to a total of 12 semesters of opportunity for eligibility upon entering the seventh
grade. The final eight semesters shall be consecutive.

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2016-17_AAA_Handbook_abs.pdf

bleudog

Quote from: HorseFeathers on November 30, 2017, 08:26:21 pm
If Earle actually had home fans show up, I'd say that's a slap on the wrist payable just from concessions....anyway, should increase that fine some...$500 doesn't seem like much if a deterrent...

But then again Earle did misplace 2 million dollars, which is why the state took them over....

I agree with the $500 being too small.  But then again, I think a school that disbands their team in mid-season should have to pay a sizable fine to away game opponents for all games it had scheduled but can't play.

And I don't think a school should put kids at risk to keep a season going.  Just don't start something there's a good chance you can't finish.

And the $2 mil should be criminal.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: Champ74 on November 30, 2017, 08:27:25 pm
I've read a lot of negative comments about our program and I've even heard several flat out lies, people are pointing the finger and making excuses. Bottom line is that this is a issue of the 8 Semester clock and these things have to get checked and double checked. Regardless of what anyone has to say or think, the man I know as our Head Coach and Assistant Coaches would never risk their season by knowingly playing an ineligible player.

So, the ruling in 2007 would have been player sits, Earle plays Friday night...

Is that why Earle has filed the injunction?

paraloma

If Earle has to forfeit, they forfeit to MS , not just Salem. It is unreasonable to replay the entire season. The playoffs should be the only concern. You can't reward Salem without rewarding MS.



Dapper Dan

Quote from: bigworm on November 30, 2017, 06:34:17 pm
If they went back to the first theyd have to go back to 1st game of conference season. Haha. 0-7 dont even make the playoffs.

AAA is a joke. There was a team in the 2A finals last year just as guilty as earle. Do what ever ya want football coaches. 99 of 100 times you wont get caught.

False. AAA was at that school multiple times and never found evidence that anything of the sort was going on.

delta0911

Quote from: HorseFeathers on November 30, 2017, 08:40:52 pm
So, the ruling in 2007 would have been player sits, Earle plays Friday night...

Is that why Earle has filed the injunction?

Post on FB makes it sound like parents are trying to fundraise for a lawyer to file injunction, who knows status.  Sad situation.  AC is from here in Lake Village, we had a RB transfer up there to play this season.  Good young man.  Sad for those kids.  They weren't the ones who created the problem.

ISU7

Quote from: stuck in between on November 30, 2017, 04:10:36 pm
I hate to hear this for the kids at Earle that worked their tail off to get to the semifinals. There are people at fault, but those people are not the kids. My question is how did the Triple A decide to give Salem the second chance and not Mineral Springs or any of the other teams that Earle defeated in the season? What position are they putting Salem in considering they have already turned their pads in for the year? No win situation here.
You would think Salem should play Mineral Springs too see who plays Foreman. . Then there's the 6 seed from the 3-2A  conference that missed the play offs. Sad.smh.

ISU7

Quote from: hesmine_lionpride on November 30, 2017, 06:23:10 pm
It is Salem because they can not go back to the beginning of the bracket. If they went back to the second round then they'd need to go back to the first...not going to happen
Earle had a first rd bye.

Dapper Dan

I think it's been handled the right way. A lot of people have gotten a bad draw. Go back to the last opponent they "beat" and put them in. What would we do if they would have played and best Foreman and then all of this came out? How would MS,Salem and Foreman all figure out who would play Mt. Ida in the championship game? Would be basically playing a whole quadrant over. It's still technically unfair for Salem to only have one week to prepare for Foreman's two weeks. Foreman moves on no matter their opponent.


Bigditchlion

Quote from: Dapper Dan on November 30, 2017, 08:42:58 pm
False. AAA was at that school multiple times and never found evidence that anything of the sort was going on.

Just because they didn't find something doesn't mean it didn't happen. Really!!?  No one will ever make me believe that wasn't fishy.

Champ74

Quote from: Old Scrapper on November 30, 2017, 08:30:08 pm
props for showing up! Thought all you guys were in witness protection by now!

Scrapper we were built for this ish... No run from this Dog...

ISU7

I remember watching Football Friday Night and they were showing highlights of Earle playing whoever anyway a runningback from Earle scored a td and the sports commentator said good run by the Earle player who name is not known.

Coltfan2005

Quote from: RoadWarrior on November 30, 2017, 05:22:14 pm
1 kid transferred in 3 years ago from Marion and he failed 9th grade when he was there. Moved to Earle and played from 9th grade up to now. "5th year senior" SMH

Still eligible unless he met the state age limit, gotta turn 19 before sept. Gets 8 semesters of eligibilty, so as long as he didn't play at marion...

bigworm

Quote from: Dapper Dan on November 30, 2017, 08:42:58 pm
False. AAA was at that school multiple times and never found evidence that anything of the sort was going on.

You just validated my point. Like i said J O K E. They show up. They ask a few questions. They leave. Pathetic excuse for an athletic governing body. Again......carry on coaches. Do what ya like. Dont turn yourself in and you will be fine.

Greyhound#1

Quote from: ISU7 on November 30, 2017, 09:22:23 pm
I remember watching Football Friday Night and they were showing highlights of Earle playing whoever anyway a runningback from Earle scored a td and the sports commentator said good run by the Earle player who name is not known.

I think he had 3 tds against salem

doctor in the house

Quote from: bigworm on November 30, 2017, 09:39:01 pm
You just validated my point. Like i said J O K E. They show up. They ask a few questions. They leave. Pathetic excuse for an athletic governing body. Again......carry on coaches. Do what ya like. Dont turn yourself in and you will be fine.

Plz tell us more about the AAA showing up to Earle earlier?
When? Why? Who came from the AAA?

Eslim03

This whole ordeal is created by the admin and coaching staff how long has transgressions like this been taking place at Earle. Should investigate all those b-ball championships. They have proven with this that they will cheat to win.

tmycjy

Quote from: underdog678 on November 30, 2017, 05:38:49 pm
I have heard Salem gets to play Foreman instead of Mineral Springs because Mineral Springs lost to Earle by 20, while Salem lost to Earle by 19. Therefor Salem gets to advance.

No what happen here and I hate to say it when they descover something like that the last team they played if it's in the playoff move on so if they fine out in the 1st round that other team who have move on if it was the 2ed round and they found out then that team move on if it's quarter final then that team move on and so on it's the last team that played them when they fine out

Sporty

Quote from: ISU7 on November 30, 2017, 09:22:23 pm
I remember watching Football Friday Night and they were showing highlights of Earle playing whoever anyway a runningback from Earle scored a td and the sports commentator said good run by the Earle player who name is not known.

8) :o :o

WTD

Quote from: nightowl on November 30, 2017, 05:56:25 pm
Marion  School  district  will pay for this one . We  will never play in there tournaments again there money maker game

Because you cheated?

Mr. Trill

HOrsefeathers please post the link that says Earle is fighting it. Thank u

bleudog

Quote from: Mr. Trill on November 30, 2017, 10:15:17 pm
HOrsefeathers please post the link that says Earle is fighting it. Thank u

This might be where that started.

https://twitter.com/collins_peeples/status/936367665937047552

WTD

Quote from: Coltfan2005 on November 30, 2017, 09:29:51 pm
Still eligible unless he met the state age limit, gotta turn 19 before sept. Gets 8 semesters of eligibilty, so as long as he didn't play at marion...

If it's the kid I'm thinking of he transferred when he was a junior. He never played at Marion because he was never eligible to play.

birddawg1986

This is so sad for Earle. I have watched these kids since youth football be nothing but successful (Yes only with Earle kids) . This is a great Sr class that had a chance to make history. All of this blame falls on the AD and HC for not abiding by the rules and verifying there players eligibility.

Ice Water

1) If the hearsay is even remotely accurate, this is a completely different situation than the one mentioned with Conway.

2) Regarding that situation, I still don't understand where that girl was in the wrong. Playing varsity in the 8th grade was within the rules in Alaska. There must be something I'm missing.

3) In this situation, Foreman should simply be advanced to the finals. At what point do you draw the line while moving backwards to all the teams affected. One round? The first round? All season? To simply go back one round and then stop seems arbitrary when you also decide it is significant enough to completely reschedule the entire tournament affecting all remaining teams. 

Dapper Dan

Quote from: Ice Water on November 30, 2017, 10:48:08 pm
1) If the hearsay is even remotely accurate, this is a completely different situation than the one mentioned with Conway.

2) Regarding that situation, I still don't understand where that girl was in the wrong. Playing varsity in the 8th grade was within the rules in Alaska. There must be something I'm missing.

3) In this situation, Foreman should simply be advanced to the finals. At what point do you draw the line while moving backwards to all the teams affected. One round? The first round? All season? To simply go back one round and then stop seems arbitrary when you also decide it is significant enough to completely reschedule the entire tournament affecting all remaining teams.

I see your point. Everyone else on Earle's schedule gets W's for their matchups Foreman should too.

Mr. Trill

I'm not saying anything to i know real information. Until then, I'm going to have a seat.

Wonderdog

Quote from: Coltfan2005 on November 30, 2017, 09:29:51 pm
Still eligible unless he met the state age limit, gotta turn 19 before sept. Gets 8 semesters of eligibilty, so as long as he didn't play at marion...
The 8 semesters begin in 9th grade regardless of whether the student played athletics. From the start of 9th grade, the clock (8 semesters eligibility) begins. In your interpretation, it sounds as if a student waits until their senior year, then that only counts as 2 semesters, which would be inaccurate. Sorry if you meant differently, thats just what it sounds like from reading it.

Greyhound#1

Quote from: Wonderdog on November 30, 2017, 11:59:34 pm
The 8 semesters begin in 9th grade regardless of whether the student played athletics. From the start of 9th grade, the clock (8 semesters eligibility) begins. In your interpretation, it sounds as if a student waits until their senior year, then that only counts as 2 semesters, which would be inaccurate. Sorry if you meant differently, thats just what it sounds like from reading it.


Greyhound#1

Quote from: Dapper Dan on November 30, 2017, 11:38:25 pm
I see your point. Everyone else on Earle's schedule gets W's for their matchups Foreman should too.

Can't change the rules now.  Salem plays because rules must be followed.  Earle didn't follow them so there out.  AAA advanced Salem because that is what the rule book says to do in this situation. 

ISU7

Quote from: Greyhound#1 on December 01, 2017, 12:03:41 am

Dang another week on pick ems I get to pick against Salem..lol Sorry Greyhound #1 Foreman wins by 21 8)

Eslim03

the optimism of greyhound makes me not want to be the dikk but Salem will get beat bad... this is a total mismatch.

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