New Rules Good or Bad for HS Football?

[Nacho]

I thought there was a thread with this on here but I couldn't find it.

Meetings are underway w/ coaches and AD's about the rule changes. One official stated that there will be less intimidation and fear on the field w/ these new changes.

What say you, fellas?

[OLDSCHOOL82]

How much intimidation and fear is there currently?  The goal is kind of to intimidate and make your opponent scared.  They gonna hand out cupcakes and juice during pre game?

[AirWarren]

Liberal America still continues to seep into society...

[dukes424]

I haven't heard of the new rules?  Dont tell me they have to hug at the coin toss now..

[HorseFeathers]

I haven't heard of the new rules?  Dont tell me they have to hug at the coin toss now..

Quick paddy cake and a hug

[SUGARTOWN]

What type of rule can legislate fear out of the game?

[beach bum]

How much intimidation and fear is there currently?  The goal is kind of to intimidate and make your opponent scared.  They gonna hand out cupcakes and juice during pre game?

I thought that was the whole point of sports too. The games I remember playing the most are the ones we weren't supposed to win no matter the particular sport and won solely because we didn't go into the game scared just cause the other team was the better one on paper.... The only way someone can ever upset a better team is to know how to overcome that in the first place. Obviously, just because you aren't scared doesn't mean a team will win, but at least it gives you a chance. That's all you can ask of kids today.

[OLDSCHOOL82]

Hey Nacho, how about an explanation on the topic in question?

[SUGARTOWN]

Hey Nacho, how about an explanation on the topic in question?

You know it's true, there are "meetings underway", and somebody told him this...


Sounds like fake news to me.

[OLDSCHOOL82]

Maybe a safe zone is going to be created and marked off in all stadiums?

[AirWarren]

This looks like a lead story for the cheapest toilet paper in Arkansas....

https://m.arktimes.com

[Gray lizard]

What new rules?

Does new rule state you can only make contact on the side of the line in the direction of the play. 

Defenseless player rule. Is an example against one of the first rules of football.  Play till the whistle blows.

[Rulesman]

Play till the whistle blows.

Wrong.

Often there is no whistle.

Rule #1: Don't blow the whistle until you SEE THE BALL dead by rule.

Now what are you going to do?

[Gray lizard]

Wrong.

Often there is no whistle.

Rule #1: Don't blow the whistle until you SEE THE BALL dead by rule.

Now what are you going to do?

I am not sure I understand.  Is that the reason for all the problems with stop of forward progression.  I do not think that is called with any consistency.

[gameoflife]

Let em play. Unless there is a flagrant attempt to harm a player.  Always told football is a collision sport, now we want to have air bags?

[Gray lizard]

Wrong.

Often there is no whistle.

Rule #1: Don't blow the whistle until you SEE THE BALL dead by rule.

Now what are you going to do?

Ok I admit I do not know all the rules.  Is every play not stopped and over at the sound of the whistle. 

[Rulesman]

Ok I admit I do not know all the rules.  Is every play not stopped and over at the sound of the whistle. 

Yep. But a play COULD BE over (ball dead by rule) BEFORE the whistle sounds. The players know when the ball is dead.

[cuckoobird]

And if an official calls such play, ball was dead with no whistle but player kept playing, isn't that official doing exactly what they hate fans or coaches doing? And if an official sees its dead and sees that a player sees its dead, why the ell hasn't he blown the dang whistle? Lunacy at its best

[Rulesman]

And if an official calls such play, ball was dead with no whistle but player kept playing, isn't that official doing exactly what they hate fans or coaches doing? Not if he doesn't see the ball.  And if an official sees its dead and sees that a player sees its dead, why the ell hasn't he blown the dang whistle? Lunacy at its best Two different things.

See above.

[cuckoobird]

If he doesn't see the ball, how can he assume the player does? Plus, you are expecting players to umpire the game on such plays, but if a player disagrees with you on a pass interference call you might say, you play the game and I'll officiate it! It's ludicrous

[Rulesman]

You know what happens when you assume?

[Nacho]

I thought I was behind, looks like you guys are:
This is brought to you by nfhs.org:
2-3-10 (NEW), 9-4-3n (NEW), 9-4 PENALTY: Added a new definition for a blindside block and specifies a penalty for an illegal blindside block.

Rationale: Continuing with the focus on risk minimization, the committee created a definition for a blindside block. This block involves contact by a blocker against an opponent who, because of physical positioning and focus of concentration, is vulnerable to injury. Unless initiated with open hands, it is a foul for excessive and unnecessary contact when the block is forceful and outside of the free-blocking zone.

2-24-10 (NEW), 6-1-11 (NEW), 6-1 PENALTY: Added a new definition for a pop-up kick and specifies a penalty for a pop-up kick.

Rationale: Continuing with the committee's efforts to minimize risk, a pop-up kickoff has been defined. A pop-up kick is a free kick in which the kicker drives the ball immediately to the ground, the ball strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of a ball kicked directly off the tee. Such kicks will be penalized as a dead-ball free-kick infraction

2-32-16: Expands the definition of a defenseless player by incorporating specific examples.

Rationale: The committee adopted specific examples of a defenseless player. By adding these examples, the committee continues to focus on risk minimization and responded to requests on the annual NFHS football rules questionnaire from participating coaches, game officials and state association representatives.

[Nacho]

I thought there was a thread with this on here but I couldn't find it.

I couldn't find it on here because it was on the 5A thread. If anyone wants to read what they're saying.

[OLDSCHOOL82]

Feel safer already.

[footballfan-tastic]

Maybe a safe zone is going to be created and marked off in all stadiums?

Sounds like some people want a safe zone between the boundary lines!  Let's also make sure they get a trophy with their juice and cookies.  Crazy.

Who actually sits on this committee and makes these ill-founded rules.  When you legislate contact out of football you don't have football.   Are there any statistics on the number of serious injuries caused by the above stated situations that make these rules necessary?

[OLDSCHOOL82]

Its all stemmed from the NFL lawsuits and CTE studies.  The newest one that just came out is gonna cause more changes im afraid.

[SUGARTOWN]

I thought I was behind, looks like you guys are:
This is brought to you by nfhs.org:
2-3-10 (NEW), 9-4-3n (NEW), 9-4 PENALTY: Added a new definition for a blindside block and specifies a penalty for an illegal blindside block.

Rationale: Continuing with the focus on risk minimization, the committee created a definition for a blindside block. This block involves contact by a blocker against an opponent who, because of physical positioning and focus of concentration, is vulnerable to injury. Unless initiated with open hands, it is a foul for excessive and unnecessary contact when the block is forceful and outside of the free-blocking zone.

2-24-10 (NEW), 6-1-11 (NEW), 6-1 PENALTY: Added a new definition for a pop-up kick and specifies a penalty for a pop-up kick.

Rationale: Continuing with the committee's efforts to minimize risk, a pop-up kickoff has been defined. A pop-up kick is a free kick in which the kicker drives the ball immediately to the ground, the ball strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of a ball kicked directly off the tee. Such kicks will be penalized as a dead-ball free-kick infraction

2-32-16: Expands the definition of a defenseless player by incorporating specific examples.

Rationale: The committee adopted specific examples of a defenseless player. By adding these examples, the committee continues to focus on risk minimization and responded to requests on the annual NFHS football rules questionnaire from participating coaches, game officials and state association representatives.

Ok, nothing wrong with these rules IMO. Definitely nothing to do with "intimidation and fear" as you stated yesterday. Cheap shots should always be penalized and for the most part always have been.

[footballfan-tastic]

The hope that you can minimize serious injury is fine, rules to do so are fine, what those rules actually are is the problem.  How does an official make the decision about unnecessary force, or intent?  You are leaving an official to make an opinion call.  Its excessive on this play but not on this play!   Cut blocking, spearing, even throwing punches are not always called correctly, how do you ensure the new rules will be?  I fear the results of some of the latitude being built into the game. Time will tell.

[Nacho]

Ok, nothing wrong with these rules IMO. Definitely nothing to do with "intimidation and fear" as you stated yesterday. Cheap shots should always be penalized and for the most part always have been.

a pop up kick is a good rule change to you? The OFFICIAL said that they are eliminating it because there were too MANY big hits off of those. It's smart, not cheap. Get real.

[SUGARTOWN]

a pop up kick is a good rule change to you? The OFFICIAL said that they are eliminating it because there were too MANY big hits off of those. It's smart, not cheap. Get real.

The only people that care about a "pop up" kick are from PA. And you can still onside kick all you want too...

[footballfan-tastic]

You want to protect against the pop up kick, back up the kicking team and possibly the return team another 5 yards.  Sounds like they are trying to prevent on side type kick recovery's anyway, so just eliminate them by positioning.  That will do away with alot of contact that is blind and sudden.

[SUGARTOWN]

The hope that you can minimize serious injury is fine, rules to do so are fine, what those rules actually are is the problem.  How does an official make the decision about unnecessary force, or intent?  You are leaving an official to make an opinion call.  Its excessive on this play but not on this play!   Cut blocking, spearing, even throwing punches are not always called correctly, how do you ensure the new rules will be?  I fear the results of some of the latitude being built into the game. Time will tell.

Officials make judgement calls every game, some they get right, some they get wrong. I don't really think this new rule will make a big difference one way or another.

[OLDSCHOOL82]

Many judgment calls versus black and white calls are hard.  Especially, when we are dealing with a dwindling number of refs at the same time. Both in numbers of refs and quality of refs.

[footballfan-tastic]

Better education for officials would help, do you still get to mail in your exam?  Clinics for officials in greater number and intensity would be good.  Never said officiating was easy but some do a good job and some do a lousy job.  I've seen too many calls already for unnecessary contact away from the play that was face to face but because the ball was not close the flag flew.

[YC]

Many judgment calls versus black and white calls are hard.  Especially, when we are dealing with a dwindling number of refs at the same time. Both in numbers of refs and quality of refs.

The lack of officials is about to become a major problem.

The following in statements made by a couple of local officials.   

"We've got to have a better partnership between coaches, school administrators and officials," Craft said. "I can't speak for baseball and volleyball, but football is at a crisis level. We're looking at moving (lower classification) games off of Friday night, solely because of a lack of officials."

How can this be?

"If I could figure that out, I would be rich," veteran official Brandy Ballard said. "I don't know the answer to that. The Northsides and Southsides are going to play on Friday nights, and the Hacketts, Mansfields and Charlestons ... those schools are going to have to play their games on Thursday nights.

"If we're not careful, there's not going to be enough Friday night officials."

[beach bum]

but football is at a crisis level. We're looking at moving (lower classification) games off of Friday night, solely because of a lack of officials."

Aren't some 2A and 3A games already being shifted away from Friday starting this coming season? That is the rumor I heard...

[Nacho]

Many judgment calls versus black and white calls are hard.  Especially, when we are dealing with a dwindling number of refs at the same time. Both in numbers of refs and quality of refs.

+1 for this. I think this is my "problem" is that it is going to be very subjective. And that leads to a rabbit hole of problems for refs. I do not envy their jobs.

[Nacho]

And Sugartown:

I agree that it mostly affects PA but why are they making rules based on one school's philosophy. I can only imagine what Coach K is going to come up w/ next, but that's for the 5A board.

[footballfan-tastic]

Are officials in AR not well paid?  What does AR pay in comparison to other states around us?   If its a pay matter increase the pay, if its something else deal with the problem to get more officials and get them well trained. 

[OLDSCHOOL82]

^ That's a problem as well. Money isn't good enough for some of the distances traveled and some of the coaches they have to put up with..and fans!!

[cuckoobird]

Sad part is, coaches and fans have to put up with bad officiating too

[OLDSCHOOL82]

Sad part is, coaches and fans have to put up with bad officiating too

Hate to say it but I agree with ya coobird.

[Rulesman]

Sad part is, coaches and fans have to put up with bad officiating too

Then get your rear out there and lend a hand instead of whining about it.

[OLDSCHOOL82]

^ Schools probably couldn't afford coobirds rates!

[cuckoobird]

Officiating isn't for everyone, even some who are already officiating. No one is whining about it, I'm just speaking the truth. There are good officials and bad officials. Good officials have to put up with bad coaches and fans and good coaches and fans have to put up with bad officials. Sorry I hurt your little tiny feelings there rulesman

[Gray lizard]

I read through the tread on recruitment of officials.
I would have considered doing it, but I am 51 and have a baby surprise going into the 8th grade this year.  So I have plans to attend his games for the next 5 years.  He also states he will play college ball some where so it is possible for another 4 years on top of that.

Here a few questions that might help a person decide.
What is the expected cost to become certified?
What is the time involved in certification?
How is it determined where you will work?
If a guy works Pee Wee, JR high, and high school games about what kind of money can he make a week?

[Lumberjackfan1978]

Sad part is, coaches and fans have to put up with bad officiating too

that is so true

[SUGARTOWN]

Then get your rear out there and lend a hand instead of whining about it.

Not everybody has a job that allows them to get off on Friday afternoons and travel 1-2 hours in order to be an official.

I'm lucky in that my jobs hours are such that I can still do the radio for Stuttgart even though almost every game is a road game for me.

[GuvHog]

Then get your rear out there and lend a hand instead of whining about it.

As long as the AOA is their own boss and the AAA won't lean on them about poor officiating, there is nothing that can be done.

[cuckoobird]

Finally Guv is correct