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Discussion of Larger Venue of Hoops Finals

Started by bbfan89, March 11, 2016, 07:04:13 pm

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businesstron

Quote from: spoony gluv on March 16, 2016, 09:40:51 pm
I'm pretty sure that parking at Barton Coliseum and Verizon are far more unsafe than parking at Bank of the Ozarks Arena. Only advantage to Barton parking is it's mostly contained in the fairgrounds property but the venue is less than desirable.

I went to the one at Barton and I never felt unsafe in the parking lot.  As a matter of fact after the saturday slate of games finished I remember waiting at the gate outside the complex for my wife to get me because traffic was so bad. 

The only thing that sucked about Barton is that it is old and those bath rooms were god awful.  But the energy and atmosphere there was great.  It also helped that more people in Little Rock could attend it though. 

mijally

Quote from: itsslim on March 13, 2016, 01:50:23 pm
I'm not familiar with other states, but can any compare the AAA to other high school associations and tell me the differences and how Arkansas stands. the good and bad. some thing has to be done
I grew up in Kentucky where basketball is a religion. They have 1 boys champion and 1 girls champion. 2 total not 14 like Ark. They understand basketball success has nothing to do with school size. They don't want winless teams in a state tournament like Ar does when they had all the 6A teams in. There is no big shot lobbying for his sons weak team to get to play in the tournament. They make you earn it. They divide all participating schools into 16 regions with 4 districts of 4-5 teams each based on proximity. You play a round robin reg season to seed your district tournament. First and second in the district tourn goes to the 16 team regional. You MUST win your regional to get to the state tourney and the Sweet Sixteen. The event is held in Rupp and is a big deal.

Moonshiner

How often do the small schools win the state title?

Rocket23

Exactly how often have we needed more than 6500 seats?  Not very many, three times I can remember.  And then when you have 2,500 or 3,000 it is like a ghost town in an arena like Verizion.

zebradynasty

March 17, 2016, 12:17:24 pm #54 Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 03:30:03 pm by zebradynasty
Having an overall champion for the state of Arkansas....we've been there done that. Guess who was the biggest complainer as to why we don't have it anymore....small schools! The larger schools simply dominated it I think Parkdale was the only small school to win the overall. Otherwise it was brutal (no running clock back then). Girls may have been more competitive but boys it was bad.

mijally

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 17, 2016, 12:01:20 pm
How often do the small schools win the state title?
Every time they deserve too. Hey not everyone can be champion. They are only interested to know who is the best. That's all. No time for losers right?  That's the song I heard all week in Hot Springs. That is the way Kentucky wants it. Right or wrong.

mijally

Last year 1 boys tourn drew 98000 fans. Down 30000 from two years ago. A separate girls tourn drew 31000 down 8000 from previous year. Big school vs small school matchups are huge.

Moonshiner

Quote from: zebradynasty on March 17, 2016, 12:17:24 pm
Having an overall champion for the state of Arkansas....we've been there done that. Guess who was the biggest complainer as to why we don't have it anymore....small schools! The larger schools simply dominated it I think Parkdale was the only big school to win the overall. Otherwise it was brutal (no running clock back then). Girls may have been more competitive but boys it was bad.

I'm sure you meant Parkdale was a small school.  There were several small schools to win and even more made it to the finals.  Pine Bluff beat Caddo Hills in a close one one year.  It should usually be brutal.  It would be embarrassing to be a 7A and lose to an A, 2A, or 3A wouldn't it.

zebradynasty

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 17, 2016, 02:35:24 pm
I'm sure you meant Parkdale was a small school.  There were several small schools to win and even more made it to the finals.  Pine Bluff beat Caddo Hills in a close one one year.  It should usually be brutal.  It would be embarrassing to be a 7A and lose to an A, 2A, or 3A wouldn't it.

That is correct I meant small school. Looks like I missed a couple of the 20 overall games small schools won 4. I did some checking and found this:

Past overall boys basketball champions

From 1972 to 1992, the Arkansas Activities Association organized an overall state championship tournament of the classification state champions.

1992 – LR Parkview (2)
1991 – West Memphis (3)
1990 – Pine Bluff (2)
1989 – Blytheville
1988 – LR Parkview
1987 – Fayetteville
1986 – Dermott
1985 – Magnolia
1984 – LR Hall (2)
1983 – LR Hall
1982 – Gurdon
1981 – West Memphis (2)
1980 – West Memphis
1979 – Parkdale
1978 – Dumas
1977 – Pine Bluff
1976 – Conway
1975 – LR Central (3)
1974 – FS Northside
1973 – LR Central (2)
1972 – LR Central

Moonshiner

I guess my point was, how many times did a small school make it to the finals.
Bigger schools are supposed to beat smaller schools.  I'm not in favor of putting everyone together like Captain Kentucky is talking about.  I like it like it is.
I do think, however that Bay and Cedar Ridge and Earle could hold their own this year. 

mijally

I don't understand why anyone would want to know who is the best HS team under 150 enrollment. 151-250, 251-350, 351-500, 501-800, 801-1100, and over 1100. Who cares?  Let's have 50 classifications and if you win 4 games all year you can be a champ too. Lol. Travel hundreds of miles on a bus, play 14 conference games and still need tiebreakers. Lol. Arkansas should have no more than 2 divisions in all sports except football. Not an overall. Not the best of different enrollment levels or classes. The best 16 in the state. 

mijally

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 17, 2016, 04:44:27 pm
I guess my point was, how many times did a small school make it to the finals.
Bigger schools are supposed to beat smaller schools.  I'm not in favor of putting everyone together like Captain Kentucky is talking about.  I like it like it is.
I do think, however that Bay and Cedar Ridge and Earle could hold their own this year.
I'm not in favor of it either. I was just describing how it is answering the question Slick.

Moonshiner

Quote from: mijally on March 17, 2016, 04:46:10 pm
I don't understand why anyone would want to know who is the best HS team under 150 enrollment. 151-250, 251-350, 351-500, 501-800, 801-1100, and over 1100. Who cares?  Let's have 50 classifications and if you win 4 games all year you can be a champ too. Lol. Travel hundreds of miles on a bus, play 14 conference games and still need tiebreakers. Lol. Arkansas should have no more than 2 divisions in all sports except football. Not an overall. Not the best of different enrollment levels or classes. The best 16 in the state.

I'd say there are several thousand people in my home state of Arkansas that care.  We do have too many classes in Arkansas.  I've said that on here numerous times.  Arkansas is a small state, filled with small towns and small schools.  2 divisions is too few.  7 is obviously too many.  I like 5 personally. But try going into a gym full of people watching Bay and ICC and tell them that Their state titles are meaningless.   They'll gladly try to change your mind.

zebradynasty

But folks we already done this! When Arkansas had an overall for 20 years we had 5 or less classifications. It did little to advance basketball for the state. Now if you want to do this to get more money...that's different.

For the record Parkview runs the clock on Earl and Cedar Ridge!

Moonshiner

Quote from: zebradynasty on March 17, 2016, 06:46:23 pm
But folks we already done this! When Arkansas had an overall for 20 years we had 5 or less classifications. It did little to advance basketball for the state. Now if you want to do this to get more money...that's different.

For the record Parkview runs the clock on Earl and Cedar Ridge!

No way.  Did you see either team play?  Cedar would've sat on it.

zebradynasty

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 17, 2016, 07:07:35 pm
No way.  Did you see either team play?  Cedar would've sat on it.

Yep add Jonesboro too had they made they won it.

Moonshiner

Quote from: zebradynasty on March 17, 2016, 07:13:03 pm
Yep add Jonesboro too had they made they won it.

Guess we will disagree.  I'm not saying they'd beat those teams, but there's no way there'd be a turbo clock.

mijally

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 17, 2016, 05:50:14 pm
I'd say there are several thousand people in my home state of Arkansas that care.  We do have too many classes in Arkansas.  I've said that on here numerous times.  Arkansas is a small state, filled with small towns and small schools.  2 divisions is too few.  7 is obviously too many.  I like 5 personally. But try going into a gym full of people watching Bay and ICC and tell them that Their state titles are meaningless.   They'll gladly try to change your mind.
If there was a division for 4a and below Bay would be able to compete for the championship. So would Earle. Cedar Ridge would be a favorite. A division for 5a and above. Parkview who is now 5a would be a favorite for that division. That's all I'm saying. Less long distanc travel getting back at midnight on a winter night. I played HS ball in an isolated area of Arkansas and I've had a kid and traveled to away games 3 hours away. It's not necessary.  Less league games. More non conference for player development.

Moonshiner

Quote from: mijally on March 17, 2016, 08:57:47 pm
If there was a division for 4a and below Bay would be able to compete for the championship. So would Earle. Cedar Ridge would be a favorite. A division for 5a and above. Parkview who is now 5a would be a favorite for that division. That's all I'm saying. Less long distanc travel getting back at midnight on a winter night. I played HS ball in an isolated area of Arkansas and I've had a kid and traveled to away games 3 hours away. It's not necessary.  Less league games. More non conference for player development.

I can see what you're saying. I don't like it watered down either.

mijally

That's my point. It's so watered down. When they had all the 6a teams in the state tournament for soccer and there was a winless team in it that just blew my mind. What was the logic behind that?  Who was the individual(s) that thought that made good sense? 

always88

The fact that Gentry made state playoffs in football with a 3-7 record the year before last, tells me that its all about the money!

ricepig

Quote from: mijally on March 17, 2016, 08:57:47 pm
If there was a division for 4a and below Bay would be able to compete for the championship. So would Earle. Cedar Ridge would be a favorite. A division for 5a and above. Parkview who is now 5a would be a favorite for that division. That's all I'm saying. Less long distanc travel getting back at midnight on a winter night. I played HS ball in an isolated area of Arkansas and I've had a kid and traveled to away games 3 hours away. It's not necessary.  Less league games. More non conference for player development.

I'm guessing you aren't aware of the new blended conferences, travel will be greatly reduced for the vast majority.

mijally

Yes I am aware and it's even crazier then anything. Let's play a league game but if it's against a different classification school then "it really don't count".  Lol. I wanna party with the individual who thought of that.

mijally

Here is some info to think about. Kentucky has no classifications. It's a free-for-all. Here are the enrollment figures for the 16 teams who won their regional and are in the sweet sixteen state tournament:

2293
1369
1241
1237
1225
1219
1019
856
829
691
650
507
480
440
353
200
The team with 440 enrollment won their first round game.

Moonshiner

Quote from: mijally on March 17, 2016, 10:15:07 pm
Here is some info to think about. Kentucky has no classifications. It's a free-for-all. Here are the enrollment figures for the 16 teams who won their regional and are in the sweet sixteen state tournament:

2293
1369
1241
1237
1225
1219
1019
856
829
691
650
507
480
440
353
200
The team with 440 enrollment won their first round game.

So let's apply this to the college seen.  Let's put all 4 year colleges in the same format.  NCAA Divisions 1,2 and 3.  NAIA Divisions 1 & 2.   Why would Division 2 NAIA even field a team?  They would never have a chance.  Or even worse Division 3 NCAA.

mijally


zebradynasty

Quote from: mijally on March 17, 2016, 10:15:07 pm
Here is some info to think about. Kentucky has no classifications. It's a free-for-all. Here are the enrollment figures for the 16 teams who won their regional and are in the sweet sixteen state tournament:

2293
1369
1241
1237
1225
1219
1019
856
829
691
650
507
480
440
353
200
The team with 440 enrollment won their first round game.


If Kentucky basketball is better than Arkansas I highly doubt this system is the reason.

ricepig

Let's not confuse UK with Kentucky high school basketball, 3 out of the 14 kids on the roster are from the state of Kentucky. Now, the play very good basketball in Kentucky, but they aren't inordinately better than other comparable states.

zebradynasty

Quote from: ricepig on March 17, 2016, 11:44:07 pm
Let's not confuse UK with Kentucky high school basketball, 3 out of the 14 kids on the roster are from the state of Kentucky. Now, the play very good basketball in Kentucky, but they aren't inordinately better than other comparable states.

The exact point I was making.

mijally

You guys are missing what I'm trying to say. I'm talking about the format that state uses to determine a champion. Not the talent of the players or the quality of basketball.

zebradynasty

Quote from: mijally on March 18, 2016, 09:13:33 am
You guys are missing what I'm trying to say. I'm talking about the format that state uses to determine a champion. Not the talent of the players or the quality of basketball.

I understand I just don't see the need or the advantage in changing the current format to an overall champion. I see the need to change up our classification system but you know what you do when you ride a horse until it dies? GET OFF! No need riding a dead horse!

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