Analysis on Arkansas High School Track and Field

[AT]

The season has ended and we have another summer until the distance runners hit the cross country courses in the fall.

But I want to, with a humble opinion, do some analysis on what I like about Arkansas high school track and field and what I don't like about it.

I'll start with the things I don't like about it, because I always like to end on a good note.

Maybe "don't like" is a little too harsh. Perhaps I should use "Things I would like to see changed or improved upon." I know there's a lot of work that goes into making these rules.

Also, I'm not a coach and don't have a lot of insight they do in these areas. So hopefully Rattler, Caddo, or maybe someone else can come in and put their 2 cents in.

THINGS I'D LIKE TO SEE CHANGED OR IMPROVED

1. Quality over quantity (state qualifying meets)
I never thought I'd say this one, but I think there may be too many state qualifying meets in outdoor track and field in Arkansas. I believe we have too many meets where the officials aren't properly trained and we are having more unreliable marks in field events. Also, some of the FAT (fully automatic timing) seems to have malfunctions at some meets or the wind gauge seems to mess up and we get unreliable times also.

Personally, I'd like to see less state qualifying meets with more quality officials (instead of junior high students measuring in the long jump or triple jump). Hopefully, you could have these meets in every region of the state such that a team could travel to at least two or three a year. Another solution to this problem would be to have stricter policies on officiating. Making the officials actually receive more proper training, but I know officials at these meets are usually coaches of other sports and that might be unrealistic.

This isn't to say I don't want all meets possible to be posted on varvee, but not every meet posted on varvee has to be state qualifying even if it is FAT. I know this would make less schools likely to use varvee or FAT if the meet isn't certified, but I think we are starting to see a lack of consistency in jumps with all these state qualifying meets and it makes it hard for coaches and athletes to know what times and marks are reliable.

2. The way we decide state qualifying marks and times
The AAA has a very reasonable way on how to decide the state qualifying marks and times in each event in each classification. They take the average of the past 5 years 3rd place finisher in each event and that becomes the state qualifying time/mark in the respective classification.

It's reasonable, but I don't think it's the best way. For instance, this year 6A had standards that were a little bit ridiculously easy. This let teams qualify huge amounts of state qualifiers and water down the state championship. The reason this happened is that a few years ago, there was some really bad weather and wind at the 6A state championship and this caused some very slow times. Thus the standards to qualify for state dropped dramatically based on these times.

Weather and wind aren't the only factors that come into play. Distance races in championships have runners that may have to run 2 or 3 events that night and so these races may go out slow. This also brings down the times and the state qualifying marks.

It's tough to say what a better solution would be, but I've thought of something. You can still use an average based on the 3rd place athlete from the past 5 years, but take their best mark/time from ALL state qualifying meets from throughout the year and use that instead for your calculations. If their mark at state is their best one, then just use that. This solution sort of relies on the reliability of state qualifying meets again, though, and is another reason we should have quality over quantity.

3. Multi-day state meet
I believe this might have used to happen in the past. I know my conference meet my sophomore year was a two day event and I loved how it was set up.

On the first day, you had the prelims for sprints and hurdles, the first round of field events, and the 4 x 800 meter relay. This could allow for a variety of things.

First, your sprinters and hurdlers don't have to run prelims and finals on the same day and kill their legs

Second, your distance runners don't have to worry about running a 4 x 800 relay and a combination of 800, 1600, and 3200 later on that night

Third, it could allow you to bring back 300 hurdle prelims and maybe even add the 400 meter dash prelims.

And lastly, it makes the state championship finals day shorter. I know that seems like a bad reason because this would require adding a whole extra day, but I think it would be better than having the meet go from 10 AM to 8PM and having so much dead time to allow kids to rest. It makes it more exciting for the fans too.

[AT]

THINGS I LIKE ABOUT HIGH SCHOOL TRACK AND FIELD IN ARKANSAS

1. The idea of how we decide state qualifiers
Now don't let this make you think I'm contradicting myself from above. What I'm saying here is that I like how we use only two ways to qualify for state. Hitting a state qualifying mark or finishing high enough at the conference meet. This way makes athletes perform on the track in the spotlight, much like a tournament, so that they can qualify for state, but it also lets athletes who may have a bad performance at conference or get hurt to have a chance throughout the year to qualify for state.

I also like how the AAA decides how many go from each classification from conference. 6 from 7A/6A, 4 from 5A, 2 from 4A/3A/2A/1A seems perfect to me considering the number of teams in each classification. I would think maybe of taking all 8 scorers from 7A/6A, but that's not a big deal.

2. The balance of events at meets
I LOVE how balanced Arkansas High School Track and field is. What I mean is that it's not too sprint oriented and not too distance oriented. I've seen other states where they have a 4 x 100 relay, 4 x 200 relay, 4 x 400 relay, and a sprint medley relay at the state meet with a 4 x 800 relay and distance medley relay maybe to counterbalance that. Not only that, these states will double the points you receive in relays. So 1st place would get 20 points, 2nd place would get 16, and so on. This is just asking for a sprint team to win.

But in Arkansas you have 3 sprints, 3 distance runs, 3 relays (1 sprint, 1 distance, and 1 sprint like but you can have good distance runners run it).

In field events you have two horizontal jumps (athleticism), two vertical jumps (form and technique + athleticism), and two throws (strength and athleticism).

Sure, track and field is always going to be geared towards teams with more gifted athleticism, but so is every other sport in existence. The way the AAA has the events balanced lets teams be able to train in certain areas to counterbalance naturally athletic teams.

3. Varvee
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I've done a 180 on my opinion of this site. It has a lot of cool things about it that directathletics doesn't have. Varvee gives you wind readings in the sprints and jumps for each individual jumper instead of one big wind reading for a flight of jumpers.

Varvee also sorts the athletes in the order they finished overall instead of just how they finished in their heat or flight.

Also Varvee has a good navigation system to go between meets and events in those meets.

There are still some problems that need to be figured out, of course. Making sure coaches don't put the same athlete under two different names, making sure each school is in the right classification after realignment, and reporting the FINALS places for the sprints only instead of a mix of finals and prelims.

[AT]

I encourage discussion about this by the way.

[WPWells]

I've never been much of a track guy, probably because I didn't go to a school that had much of a track program, but the way you make it sound I think I should get into track

[RATTLER43]

I have some thoughts on the matter. Give me time to get them together.  Good analysis. 

[Texarkana_Piggie]

This is my complete knowledge of track:  Arkansas high (Texarkana) won the state championship.  I know this because I read the paper. 

[sevenof400]

This is my complete knowledge of track:  Arkansas high (Texarkana) won the state championship.  I know this because I read the paper.

Bad Piggie!  Bad, bad Piggie!

Come give track an honest try sometime and you may just find how enjoyable a track meet can be.

[sevenof400]

On the down side for track, the sport suffers because there are too few qualified referees / judges to properly staff the various events.  Referee / official training for track is extremely rare and combined with the fact that no school pays for meet officials (with the possible exception of the starter and whoever runs the meet results system), you don't see many people willing to referee / judge an event. 

I am surprised AAA actually charges a fee for a person to become a registered track official since you will likely never get paid for working a meet.  At the very least, AAA should allow track officials to register for free. 

[AT]

I've never been much of a track guy, probably because I didn't go to a school that had much of a track program, but the way you make it sound I think I should get into track

I hope you give it a try sometime. I know not every sport is going to be everyone's thing, but I encourage you to give it a try. I'm not a big fan of professional soccer from what I've seen on TV, but I may be trying out a few high school soccer matches in the future because of sevenof400's and Go Postal's promotion of them on here. Perhaps if Alma gets a program (not sure if they will, but if they move up to 6A, I believe they have to add at least one more sport), then I might be more interested in seeing it.

Track and Field is different in that it's a 5-6 hour event, you can't possibly watch EVERYTHING going on, and it's tough to keep score. There's not usually a scoreboard at most high school meets in Arkansas. But once the running finals get started, the pace of the meet picks up and you get to see some incredible performances.

I have some thoughts on the matter. Give me time to get them together.  Good analysis. 

Good. I'm looking forward to it.

This is my complete knowledge of track:  Arkansas high (Texarkana) won the state championship.  I know this because I read the paper. 

Haha, you should try it sometime. Arkansas high might have been the best team in the state this year and would have been a treat to watch in person. They dominated a state meet like I haven't seen since I've been a fan.

On the down side for track, the sport suffers because there are too few qualified referees / judges to properly staff the various events.  Referee / official training for track is extremely rare and combined with the fact that no school pays for meet officials (with the possible exception of the starter and whoever runs the meet results system), you don't see many people willing to referee / judge an event. 

I am surprised AAA actually charges a fee for a person to become a registered track official since you will likely never get paid for working a meet.  At the very least, AAA should allow track officials to register for free. 

This is exactly right, seven. I haven't thought about comparing the referees to other sports. In basketball and football, the AAA or the conference director sends the officials to games and pay them. In Track and Field in Arkansas, the officials are coaches from the host school who are taking time out of their schedule to ref a meet for free.

The problem of just saying "Let's pay officials to go work track meets" is that Track and Field isn't a big profitable sport like football and basketball. It might be hard to justify using too much money on it. But once again, if the AAA is stricter on their policy of what is a qualifying meet, they wouldn't have to send officials to 100 meets a year.

[RATTLER43]

Your analysis is spot on so I will not reiterate.  I will add that multi-day conference and state meets is the way to go.  We have done it before and my kids loved it.  But one year it had a twist:  we ran prelims for all 17 events one week.  All finals were a week later.  Thoughts about whether to have back to back days or a week of separation. 

I also encourage T Piggie and others to give it a try.   Go to a meet and get as close as allowed to pole vault; then wander over and watch just a few jumps and throws.   Go out and eat some supper.  Return for hurdles and 100m.  Be near hurdle 9 or 10.   Discuss what you have seen so far with a friend while keeping an eye on the 1600 finish.  Watch the sprint relay and if needed call it a night.  You will have gotten a taste of a meet:  pure athleticism combined with technique in field events; speed, explosion, and technique in sprints and hurdles;athleticism, heart, and determination of distance; and teamwork of a sprint relay.   I absolutely love watching a meet. 

[Eddie Goodson]

Because of the time of the year and all that is involved with semester testing and finals, I am opposed to multi day meets and I further believe they should only run the state meets on Saturdays. Too much school is missed in May for extra curr. activities IMO.

[sevenof400]

Because of the time of the year and all that is involved with semester testing and finals, I am opposed to multi day meets and I further believe they should only run the state meets on Saturdays. Too much school is missed in May for extra curr. activities IMO.

Eddie, think a little more about this.  Track athletes really don't miss all that much school throughout the spring semester as most teams head for meets during their athletics period at the end of the day.  For a good number of track teams, they only miss two days of class - on their conference and state meets.

Contrast that to other teams throughout the year and I think you'll see it isn't all that much. 

[MHSGrad]

I do agree with Saturday state meets.. Too many graduations have been missed because of the state track meet!.. Rattler, was it 2003 that they had the prelims one week, and then a week later was the finals. As a freshman, I ran in the prelims, but I can't remember when the finals were. The only problem I see with having them a week apart is the transportation cost for some schools. It would only work in a centralized location (Harrison and Paragould wouldn't work). Other than that, a lot of good information.

One more point to elaborate on, and that is too many qualifying meets. Trackster and I have talked about this recently, and we have noticed a pattern of certain meets year after year not being as careful as they should be, or just a lack of caring is involved. I think there should be some extra training or supervision for a school to host an AQ meet. It might cost more, but the schools that should be hosting them will be the ones paying the extra money.

[AT]

Your analysis is spot on so I will not reiterate.  I will add that multi-day conference and state meets is the way to go.  We have done it before and my kids loved it.  But one year it had a twist:  we ran prelims for all 17 events one week.  All finals were a week later.  Thoughts about whether to have back to back days or a week of separation. 

Wow, I never knew that. This is why when it comes to history of Arkansas Track and Field, you should ask RATTLER. I'm a very new track fan compared to him.

I do think maybe 17 prelims is a little too much. I personally just think any race involving runners staying in lanes should have a prelim (this means the 400 dash and 300 hurdles should be included). I also could see why a week later might cause problems with transportation costs especially in places, like MHS said, such as Harrison and Paragould. Of course, I'm not sure how hotel costs compare to transportation costs, so maybe a week early prelim would be better.

Because of the time of the year and all that is involved with semester testing and finals, I am opposed to multi day meets and I further believe they should only run the state meets on Saturdays. Too much school is missed in May for extra curr. activities IMO.

This is actually a really good point. Spring is LOADED with sports...while fall has football/XC for boys and volleyball/XC for girls and winter is pretty much just basketball.

I know from my experience in spring, you would have students miss for baseball/softball, track, DECA, NJROTC, end of year band trip, and end of year choir trip. I didn't even go to a high school with a soccer program, so I can't even imagine what that's like.

Like seven said, though, I never missed much school because of track just by itself. Other than conference and state, we hardly ever left before the athletic period at the end of the day for a track meet.

I do agree with Saturday state meets.. Too many graduations have been missed because of the state track meet!..

Saturday state meets were pretty popular when I was in high school. I'm pretty sure all 3 of mine were Saturday meets...I know my junior year one was because our seniors missed graduation to go to state and Alma's graduation is always on a Saturday.

[Texarkana_Piggie]

oh i've been to track meets.  when i was in school, we got out early if we went to the doc walker relays, so i always went to get out of class.  then later, my nephew ran track and i went to exactly 1 of his meets.  booooorrrrrrriiinnngggg!!!!!  and freakin hot.  not a fan. 

[RATTLER43]

Understood. A matter of culture and tastes.  It is my favorite sports venue.   Long but so exciting.  Nothing like a big vault, a wall of sprinters nearing a finish line, or a competitive relay.   Simply the best when a mile relay determines a championship!

[DogsWin7]

Wonderful highlight of Tack and Field Trackster.   

I think Saturday state meets would be better in all aspects....I've been to a few track meets...lol!!  I really enjoy them.

I think that some schools that host should be better prepared on the "day of" the meets from what I have seen at "some" schools and I find it sad that it's hard to find timers, etc to help with track meets.     Why not utilize everyone who has a little knowledge in running or who is willing to volunteer?    Just my opinion...

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

I was not a track fan until this year.  I worked the long jump for a couple of Harrison's meets last year, then went home.  This year I was the course clerk for 8 meets (2 7th, Jr High, and Sr High plus the district and state meets).  What was so interesting about district vs the state meet was that Alma killed Vilonia at the district meet, but was a non-factor at state whereas Vilonia killed everybody at state without having a single runner in the 100, 200, or 400.  I believe they scored 29 points in the 3200 and close to that in the 1600.  Also, I believe they won the 4 x 800 but were DQ'd, so they didn't even get those 10 points.

The state meet was pretty sweet.  One of the guys from Camden was doing the high jump and hadn't done a triple jump yet.  The meet referee? told him he needed to go do the triple (although a coach I was talking with said they are supposed to do the vertical jumps to completion before they are required to do the horizontal).  So he runs down to the triple, does a run through which I guess counted as a foul, then jumps 46' and says "I'm out!" and runs back down to the high jump.  The athleticism in the horizontal jumps are awesome along with the 100's and 200's.  The technique in the high jumps, pole vault, and hurdles are impressive to watch as well.  I think my favorite event at state was the finals for the 4 x 100, though.  It's a team and individual sport at the same time as it's about the exchange then what do you do when the baton is in your hands.  Plus, the field was wide open.  I think Camden won, but was DQ'd or something like that.  Can't remember what exactly happened. 

The meet is decently close, not really knowing who is really winning because some of the field events had not been certified by the referee? yet...then comes the 3200.  Vilonia finishes 1,2,3,5, and 8 to seal their championship.


NOTE: Seems like they stopped doing Saturday meets because host schools were complaining about finding enough volunteers on a weekend.  That may be incorrect, but that is the rumor I had heard.

[zebradynasty]

I would love for them to figure a way to bring back the 4 X 200 meter relay! Really use to generate a lot of excitement! I understand why that will probably never happen 

[AT]

I would love for them to figure a way to bring back the 4 X 200 meter relay! Really use to generate a lot of excitement! I understand why that will probably never happen 

I'm a big fan of the 4x2. I like it better than the 4x1, but if they add the 4x2, I think they'd have to add another distance relay or another distance event to balance it out.

I know Pine Bluff used to be good at every sprint, but if I remember right, the 4x2 and 4x4 for Pine Bluff was a staple of their program.

[zebradynasty]

I would love for them to figure a way to bring back the 4 X 200 meter relay! Really use to generate a lot of excitement! I understand why that will probably never happen 

I'm a big fan of the 4x2. I like it better than the 4x1, but if they add the 4x2, I think they'd have to add another distance relay or another distance event to balance it out.

I know Pine Bluff used to be good at every sprint, but if I remember right, the 4x2 and 4x4 for Pine Bluff was a staple of their program.

Yeah they would have to add another distance event and track meets are long enough as is. Seems like a friend of mine told me that Texas still runs the 4X2.

Yep! Relays used to be it for PB still have all time best in the 4X1, 4X2. I think Forrest City has it for the 4x4 but I would bet PB has the second best! Still pretty solid. Finished second this year in the MOC in the 4x1 and 4X4 just not record setting anymore.

[AT]

I was not a track fan until this year.  I worked the long jump for a couple of Harrison's meets last year, then went home.  This year I was the course clerk for 8 meets (2 7th, Jr High, and Sr High plus the district and state meets).  What was so interesting about district vs the state meet was that Alma killed Vilonia at the district meet, but was a non-factor at state whereas Vilonia killed everybody at state without having a single runner in the 100, 200, or 400.  I believe they scored 29 points in the 3200 and close to that in the 1600.  Also, I believe they won the 4 x 800 but were DQ'd, so they didn't even get those 10 points.

The state meet was pretty sweet.  One of the guys from Camden was doing the high jump and hadn't done a triple jump yet.  The meet referee? told him he needed to go do the triple (although a coach I was talking with said they are supposed to do the vertical jumps to completion before they are required to do the horizontal).  So he runs down to the triple, does a run through which I guess counted as a foul, then jumps 46' and says "I'm out!" and runs back down to the high jump.  The athleticism in the horizontal jumps are awesome along with the 100's and 200's.  The technique in the high jumps, pole vault, and hurdles are impressive to watch as well.  I think my favorite event at state was the finals for the 4 x 100, though.  It's a team and individual sport at the same time as it's about the exchange then what do you do when the baton is in your hands.  Plus, the field was wide open.  I think Camden won, but was DQ'd or something like that.  Can't remember what exactly happened. 

The meet is decently close, not really knowing who is really winning because some of the field events had not been certified by the referee? yet...then comes the 3200.  Vilonia finishes 1,2,3,5, and 8 to seal their championship.


NOTE: Seems like they stopped doing Saturday meets because host schools were complaining about finding enough volunteers on a weekend.  That may be incorrect, but that is the rumor I had heard.

Thanks for sharing Coach. Good to hear you picked up some interest in track this year. That's the neat thing about track and field is that you don't have to like every event to find the sport interesting.

I like all the events, but I'm a big fan of the 800 and high jump.

The 4x1 is a fun event to watch because you will see almost every year a team drop the baton or exchange outside the exchange zone and hurt their chances for a state title. To be competitive at all, you have to do a blind handoff. Most teams have a code word that the incoming runner says to the runner he is handing off too.

[sevenof400]

I would love for them to figure a way to bring back the 4 X 200 meter relay! Really use to generate a lot of excitement! I understand why that will probably never happen 

Only if you add the 6400m run..... 

[Caddo]

Thought I would weigh in with my thoughts.

I honestly love the automatic state qualifying. It's adds another layer of strategy and menuevering to preparing for state and the state meet itself. It greatly expands the possible scenarios, which makes it more fun. The masters at our level are Coach Haynes at Trinity and Coaches Jackson and Willsey at Acorn - they almost turn it into an art form.

Also, without pre qualifying there could be some quality (deserving) athletes left at home because only two athletes would advance or they had a bad day. Since some districts are stronger than others, lesser athletes could (would) advance to the state meet instead of the better athletes. This way both get to go to state. In my mind the standards are pretty fair - not many people pre-qualify in each event. If a kid is talented or works hard enough he gets a golden ticket to state. Of course once an athlete does qualify it opens additional strategy in the district meets - that adds even more fun.

I honestly believe the qualifying meets we go to are run off very well and fairly. The field event thing does bother me, especially since a inch or so can make a big difference in the final tally. I'm pretty sure one of our athletes got shorted in the state meet several years ago because the high school students doing the marking were talking instead of watching. But I also understand the reality - they are volunteers and we have to accept that. I appreciate people who are willing to volunteer. In some meets we (Coaches) have to run off events and it really hurts our effort to be there and help our athletes do their best.

I would hate the see the number of qualifying meets go down. We try to go to as many as possible. During the season we can only enter two athletes in most events (3 in distance) but we get to enter four at district. So we have kids who don't get to compete in every meet and it's hard to keep them interested until district. Once a kid qualifies we can hold them back and let another athlete get some experience. That's not a very good system because your better runners sometimes don't get enough experience but it's better than losing athletes before district. What I would like to do is return to the old days where we could enter more kids in each event.

Two days on the district and state meets would be nice, I would hope we wouldn't lose any athletes.

I hope this all makes sense.

[RATTLER43]

I,  too, would love to be able to enter more athletes per event at invitationals.

Makes perfect sense.