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2018 1A Boys State Championship Thread: Guy Perkins vs Izard Co SAT 7:45

Started by J.D., March 03, 2018, 09:06:06 pm

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Who wins?

Guy-Perkins
39 (49.4%)
Izard County Consolidated
40 (50.6%)

Total Members Voted: 79

J.D.

Guy-Perkins vs Izard County Consolidated

Saturday @ 7:45

JimmyChitwood

ICC by 2. To beat Guy you have to score with them. ICC is the only team I think that can score with Guy. But you can't count out Hutch. Hope he wears denim to the game.

1Lurker


J.D.


WPWells


AVGBBFAN

I think Guy sends Hutchcraft out a winner -- but if ICC pulls this off, they could be looking at a three-peat....

GassvilleDragonfly

From the times I've seen both of the teams, Guy has more player-by-player talent. One thing I know about ICC though is that look like they care more about the name on the front of the jersey than the one on the back. Something that is hard to find these days. Siles (I think I spelled that right) and Cooper going at it is going to be the matchup to watch. I'd say that Cooper will run Siles to exhaustion, and he'll be done for a rest after about three trips. I'll take ICC by 10.

riccoar

From watching the Concord matchup with Guy, Guy does not go very deep.  Their starting five go most of the way.  You absolutely must guard against the 3 when playing Guy.  Rebound on the defensive end.  Guy can run, but IMHO, would prefer not to.  Against Concord both Tipton and Spires were sucking air.  Spires struggled getting back down the floor in the 2nd half.  He's also their lone big guy.  Concord got him in foul trouble but the refs protected him the 2nd half.  When he had to come out, Concord had free will down low.

super fan

Hutchcraft gets to turn the lights off a CHAMPION!!! Can't think of a better way to end his legendary career. Guy by 11.

Flobbito

Quote from: riccoar on March 05, 2018, 12:17:55 pm
From watching the Concord matchup with Guy, Guy does not go very deep.  Their starting five go most of the way.  You absolutely must guard against the 3 when playing Guy.  Rebound on the defensive end.  Guy can run, but IMHO, would prefer not to.  Against Concord both Tipton and Spires were sucking air.  Spires struggled getting back down the floor in the 2nd half.  He's also their lone big guy.  Concord got him in foul trouble but the refs protected him the 2nd half.  When he had to come out, Concord had free will down low.

I really thought that ICC would wear down in their game against MVE especially since they had a grinder against Kirby the day before, and they did for a bit in the 3rd, but they hit the 4th like they had fresh legs and really clamped down defensively.  I think they are a team that can run and shoot with Guy for sure.  It will be an entertaining game.

GassvilleDragonfly

Quote from: riccoar on March 05, 2018, 12:17:55 pm
From watching the Concord matchup with Guy, Guy does not go very deep.  Their starting five go most of the way.  You absolutely must guard against the 3 when playing Guy.  Rebound on the defensive end.  Guy can run, but IMHO, would prefer not to.  Against Concord both Tipton and Spires were sucking air.  Spires struggled getting back down the floor in the 2nd half.  He's also their lone big guy.  Concord got him in foul trouble but the refs protected him the 2nd half.  When he had to come out, Concord had free will down low.
+1 on the preferring not to run. That's why I don't think Guy is as great a collective team as they've been given credit for. They are a good team, but not a great team.

hooperfromwestside

Quote from: GassvilleDragonfly on March 05, 2018, 04:31:31 pm
+1 on the preferring not to run. That's why I don't think Guy is as great a collective team as they've been given credit for. They are a good team, but not a great team.
I mean they are in the state championship.

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: hooperfromwestside on March 05, 2018, 09:11:11 pm
I mean they are in the state championship.
why did you name yourself hooperfromwestside, from your very first post ever you have talked about Guy

thebigman3

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on March 05, 2018, 09:19:22 pm
why did you name yourself hooperfromwestside, from your very first post ever you have talked about Guy
Is he wrong though?

hooperfromwestside

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on March 05, 2018, 09:19:22 pm
why did you name yourself hooperfromwestside, from your very first post ever you have talked about Guy
Every post I've seen you post has been against them? I've said it before and I'll say it again. If everyone can hate on guy, then I can bandwagon and cheer for them. Especially since my team is no good. You should've done it since your team was no good this year lol

GassvilleDragonfly

Quote from: hooperfromwestside on March 05, 2018, 09:11:11 pm
I mean they are in the state championship.
I never said they did not deserve to be in the title game, I was just making an observation.

riccoar

Quote from: hooperfromwestside on March 05, 2018, 09:11:11 pm
I mean they are in the state championship.
They do also have two move-ins that start.  Where would they be this year without Tipton and Petruccelli?

bigballerbrand1200

Quote from: riccoar on March 06, 2018, 07:35:29 am
They do also have two move-ins that start.  Where would they be this year without Tipton and Petruccelli?
Everyone gets move ins.


RedWolf275

Haven't seen Guy play but did see ICC against EPC in the NEA. I'm going with Guy by 8.

riccoar

Quote from: bigballerbrand1200 on March 06, 2018, 08:27:49 am
Everyone gets move ins.
Some get move ins, but Hutch recruits his.  And this being my 3rd year of watching 1A ball, I think my mindset has changed.  One, it's apparent the AAA does not have the resources to do anything about it and Two, they obviously don't give a schit about it.  That being said, I think if your school's coach is not doing it, you should encourage them to get in on the practice.

super fan

Quote from: riccoar on March 06, 2018, 08:52:05 am
Some get move ins, but Hutch recruits his.  And this being my 3rd year of watching 1A ball, I think my mindset has changed.  One, it's apparent the AAA does not have the resources to do anything about it and Two, they obviously don't give a schit about it.  That being said, I think if your school's coach is not doing it, you should encourage them to get in on the practice.
What facts do you have to substantiate your claim. I think most of his "move ins" are players that their parents played for Hutchcraft and know he can win Championships.

riccoar

Quote from: super fan on March 06, 2018, 04:34:49 pm
What facts do you have to substantiate your claim. I think most of his "move ins" are players that their parents played for Hutchcraft and know he can win Championships.
I've learned in my near 48 years that if people label you something, consistently, then it indeed merits truth.  But like I said, Hutch, I think, has mastered the fact that the AAA is not going to lift a finger to do anything about it so why not do it.  I think you are going to see it more and more from other schools.

Flobbito

Quote from: super fan on March 06, 2018, 04:34:49 pm
What facts do you have to substantiate your claim. I think most of his "move ins" are players that their parents played for Hutchcraft and know he can win Championships.

My preacher said he transferred to Guy from Greenbrier his senior year in the mid nineties.  This might sound like sarcasm, but it isn't, I wasn't around these parts then and I don't have a way to document it, but given his profession I tend to believe him.

super fan

Quote from: Flobbito on March 06, 2018, 08:23:52 pm
My preacher said he transferred to Guy from Greenbrier his senior year in the mid nineties.  This might sound like sarcasm, but it isn't, I wasn't around these parts then and I don't have a way to document it, but given his profession I tend to believe him.
I would believe him too, transferred, not recruited. Ask him if Coach Hutchcraft called him and asked him to move to Guy. I would bet he asked if he could come. My point is the kids want to come. Not him recruiting.

super fan

Quote from: riccoar on March 06, 2018, 08:16:00 pm
I've learned in my near 48 years that if people label you something, consistently, then it indeed merits truth.  But like I said, Hutch, I think, has mastered the fact that the AAA is not going to lift a finger to do anything about it so why not do it.  I think you are going to see it more and more from other schools.
I disagree. You can't always believe everything you hear. Just watch the news. I know facts. I personally know several students that have moved to Guy because they wanted to. Hutchcraft never asked them or their parents. I tried to transfer there my senior year but I had already taken to many classes, so I couldn't graduate.  My younger brother was a sophomore, so he did transfer and coach Hutchcraft didn't know him from Adam. That's Facts not rumors. Thanks

riccoar

Quote from: super fan on March 06, 2018, 10:07:28 pm
I disagree. You can't always believe everything you hear. Just watch the news. I know facts. I personally know several students that have moved to Guy because they wanted to. Hutchcraft never asked them or their parents. I tried to transfer there my senior year but I had already taken to many classes, so I couldn't graduate.  My younger brother was a sophomore, so he did transfer and coach Hutchcraft didn't know him from Adam. That's Facts not rumors. Thanks
That's your personal experience and one instance.  Again, I get it now.  It's simply taking advantage of something that is not going to be enforced.  Your not going to tell me that every kid that transferred to Guy initiated the contact.  Way too many through the years.  1A is at an advantage because it's small town ball and nobody cares enough to do squat about it.

super fan

Quote from: riccoar on March 07, 2018, 06:38:15 am
That's your personal experience and one instance.  Again, I get it now.  It's simply taking advantage of something that is not going to be enforced.  Your not going to tell me that every kid that transferred to Guy initiated the contact.  Way too many through the years.  1A is at an advantage because it's small town ball and nobody cares enough to do squat about it.
Correct, that is my personal experience. I also stated that I know several that have done it and I know exactly why. I can tell you coach Hutchcraft never initiated the contact. Most are sons or daughters of parents that played for Guy. Some had trouble with playing time or in school and chose to come to Guy. Guy is in a good location, close to bigger schools and towns. So in some cases makes it a easy choice.

Moonshiner

Quote from: super fan on March 07, 2018, 09:10:58 am
Correct, that is my personal experience. I also stated that I know several that have done it and I know exactly why. I can tell you coach Hutchcraft never initiated the contact. Most are sons or daughters of parents that played for Guy. Some had trouble with playing time or in school and chose to come to Guy. Guy is in a good location, close to bigger schools and towns. So in some cases makes it a easy choice.

Time will tell.  If the trend continues after Hutch leaves.....but that might also depend on who they hire.  I've already heard that if such and such person gets the job he's offering rides to players.  I mean, literally a ride to school.
So, if Guy wants to clean up that perception maybe they should go for the he clean cut person.  Although I doubt anybody with experience will want the job.  Too hard to replace the Legend.  I do respect the success.  Just not sure I respect how it was achieved.

TruthHurts


riccoar

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 07, 2018, 10:35:38 am
Time will tell.  If the trend continues after Hutch leaves.....but that might also depend on who they hire.  I've already heard that if such and such person gets the job he's offering rides to players.  I mean, literally a ride to school.
So, if Guy wants to clean up that perception maybe they should go for the he clean cut person.  Although I doubt anybody with experience will want the job.  Too hard to replace the Legend.  I do respect the success.  Just not sure I respect how it was achieved.
Supposedly, Teas is taking over per a fan I chatted with.  I'm with you, Hutch can coach and has earned the respect.  But things done getting there, not so much. 

And one more thing.  Just because a kid comes to you, doesn't mean you have to accept him.  I don't have any skin in the game, but seems like if coaches got together and made a pact and said, never accept a player unless they legit physically move into your city / district, this might put an end to this crap.  I realize you get some disgruntled parents threatening stuff, but coaches could end the practice if they chose to.  This makes the accepting coach just as complacent as the parent giving the kid their way and not teaching them to suck it up and let coaches coach.

1Lurker

Quote from: riccoar on March 07, 2018, 12:03:58 pm
Supposedly, Teas is taking over per a fan I chatted with.  I'm with you, Hutch can coach and has earned the respect.  But things done getting there, not so much. 

And one more thing.  Just because a kid comes to you, doesn't mean you have to accept him.  I don't have any skin in the game, but seems like if coaches got together and made a pact and said, never accept a player unless they legit physically move into your city / district, this might put an end to this crap.  I realize you get some disgruntled parents threatening stuff, but coaches could end the practice if they chose to.  This makes the accepting coach just as complacent as the parent giving the kid their way and not teaching them to suck it up and let coaches coach.

As a school, you take any good student that comes your way. That's #s and more money, crazy not to do so. And what of those kids who have worked hard for these moments their whole life, but the Coach doesn't know what hes doing or the other players around him don't care or don't work at it. There are some pretty great players out there that won't experience a state tournament in packed gym. As a parent, what do you tell those kids? What life lesson are you teaching those kids by making them stay if they had other options? These kids get to experience High School once, for some of them its the best moments of the life (cough* 83 Crew). As a parent, wouldn't you alter that experience for them if you could? I don't know what I would do in that situation but I know I'm not gonna point fingers either way.

riccoar

Quote from: 1Lurker on March 07, 2018, 02:04:12 pm
As a school, you take any good student that comes your way. That's #s and more money, crazy not to do so. And what of those kids who have worked hard for these moments their whole life, but the Coach doesn't know what hes doing or the other players around him don't care or don't work at it. There are some pretty great players out there that won't experience a state tournament in packed gym. As a parent, what do you tell those kids? What life lesson are you teaching those kids by making them stay if they had other options? These kids get to experience High School once, for some of them its the best moments of the life (cough* 83 Crew). As a parent, wouldn't you alter that experience for them if you could? I don't know what I would do in that situation but I know I'm not gonna point fingers either way.
To each their own, but to have a kid grow up in a school system from birth and then want to switch for their Senior year or last two years over a game?  Over a coach?  We are talking High School.  I get on some coaches, but if I knew more than any coach hired and paid to COACH, then I should be applying to be a HS teacher / coach.  But it's not my area, so I let them do what they know.

Flobbito

Quote from: 1Lurker on March 07, 2018, 02:04:12 pm
As a school, you take any good student that comes your way. That's #s and more money, crazy not to do so. And what of those kids who have worked hard for these moments their whole life, but the Coach doesn't know what hes doing or the other players around him don't care or don't work at it. There are some pretty great players out there that won't experience a state tournament in packed gym. As a parent, what do you tell those kids? What life lesson are you teaching those kids by making them stay if they had other options? These kids get to experience High School once, for some of them its the best moments of the life (cough* 83 Crew). As a parent, wouldn't you alter that experience for them if you could? I don't know what I would do in that situation but I know I'm not gonna point fingers either way.

I'm trying to decide if this was a bad argument, or a brilliant anti-argument?  What are you teaching them?  They're special and deserve to do whatever they want because, by golly their entitled to it?  That in a nutshell is a big problem with the younger generations, they don't have any stick-to-it in them.  I know people say "that ring tho".  Who.  Cares.  I want our teams to do well, because they earned it over the years they spent together working on being a great team and teammates.  Earning it that way, learning to work and grind to get there will prepare them more for life than trying to assemble a team from here there and everywhere (whether by the Coach's/Administration's design or not).  For whoever wins the championships this weekend, if they look back at this and think, "man, that was the best time of my life" then I feel bad for them.  If these kids look back and say, "athletics taught me how to be a team player, to give my absolute best, to work my tail off using the gifts I have, and now I can use this as a professional (whatever that profession may be) because I know how to set goals and persevere through adversity"  then that kid really got the most out of his/her high school athletic experience.  Good luck to all the teams this weekend.

1Lurker

Quote from: Flobbito on March 07, 2018, 03:09:50 pm
I'm trying to decide if this was a bad argument, or a brilliant anti-argument?  What are you teaching them?  They're special and deserve to do whatever they want because, by golly their entitled to it?  That in a nutshell is a big problem with the younger generations, they don't have any stick-to-it in them.  I know people say "that ring tho".  Who.  Cares.  I want our teams to do well, because they earned it over the years they spent together working on being a great team and teammates.  Earning it that way, learning to work and grind to get there will prepare them more for life than trying to assemble a team from here there and everywhere (whether by the Coach's/Administration's design or not).  For whoever wins the championships this weekend, if they look back at this and think, "man, that was the best time of my life" then I feel bad for them.  If these kids look back and say, "athletics taught me how to be a team player, to give my absolute best, to work my tail off using the gifts I have, and now I can use this as a professional (whatever that profession may be) because I know how to set goals and persevere through adversity"  then that kid really got the most out of his/her high school athletic experience.  Good luck to all the teams this weekend.
Or worked their tail off for nothing. I'm sure no adult has ever switched jobs over a bad boss or co-worker, I'm sure they "grinded" it out. And it's wishful thinking to think that this isn't some of the best years for some of these kids. Nothing wrong with wanting a good High School experience or wanting to improve yourself under better guidance. If you're this irritated over kids switching schools though, then you might take a look in the mirror cause it sounds like jealousy.

And what makes you think staying in a situation the kid isn't happy with is gonna make him/her a better team player? And playing for a poor coach is gonna help him/her how? Why do you assume staying at that school teaches him/her these things and switching doesn't?

Flobbito

Quote from: 1Lurker on March 07, 2018, 03:18:07 pm
Or worked their tail off for nothing. I'm sure no adult has ever switched jobs over a bad boss or co-worker, I'm sure they "grinded" it out. And it's wishful thinking to think that this isn't some of the best years for some of these kids. Nothing wrong with wanting a good High School experience or wanting to improve yourself under better guidance. If you're this irritated over kids switching schools though, then you need to wash that purple sticky stuff off your face. No one needs to see that jelly..

I see that this is a very emotional topic for you, to be clear it makes no difference to me if Guy or ICC wins. I think having Hutch riding off into the sunset, draped in denim with one more ring would be a fitting end to his career. My point in my previous post was this: kids should use athletics to learn how to work hard, persevere, deal with setbacks and disappointments. Bad bosses (just like bad coaches) happen.  Hard work, attention to details, and yes even grinding - not cutting corners or looking for loop holes, etc. - creates the opportunity for advancement in a career.  Can we at least agree on that?

1Lurker

Quote from: Flobbito on March 07, 2018, 03:35:16 pm
I see that this is a very emotional topic for you, to be clear it makes no difference to me if Guy or ICC wins. I think having Hutch riding off into the sunset, draped in denim with one more ring would be a fitting end to his career. My point in my previous post was this: kids should use athletics to learn how to work hard, persevere, deal with setbacks and disappointments. Bad bosses (just like bad coaches) happen.  Hard work, attention to details, and yes even grinding - not cutting corners or looking for loop holes, etc. - creates the opportunity for advancement in a career.  Can we at least agree on that?
Absolutely my friend. And I really just defended Guy and recruiting there just to play Devil's Advocate. I just so often see people accusing a school of recruiting when it really is the kids choice a lot of the time, not recruiting. And I don't judge parents for making what they feel is the best choice for their kid. I will be cheering ICC on the whole way!

1Lurker

Lets get this board back on track..
I can appreciate all those great successful teams Hutch has had. I just don't see it in this one. ICC just looks better to me. They've had a couple let downs with Bay and EPC, but game in/game out this is a really good team, and I think they take home the championship at the end of the day.

super fan

Quote from: 1Lurker on March 07, 2018, 03:38:16 pm
Absolutely my friend. And I really just defended Guy and recruiting there just to play Devil's Advocate. I just so often see people accusing a school of recruiting when it really is the kids choice a lot of the time, not recruiting. And I don't judge parents for making what they feel is the best choice for their kid. I will be cheering ICC on the whole way!
+1. Very well said. But I will be cheering for Guy. I hope both teams play their best.

Backboard Shattered


riccoar

Quote from: 1Lurker on March 07, 2018, 04:05:40 pm
Lets get this board back on track..
I can appreciate all those great successful teams Hutch has had. I just don't see it in this one. ICC just looks better to me. They've had a couple let downs with Bay and EPC, but game in/game out this is a really good team, and I think they take home the championship at the end of the day.
I'll tell you this much.  I saw Guy play Concord and Concord could have won that game.  Came away knowing that Guy team was no where near the team they had last season.  Told myself, "no way Guy makes the finals in state."

Guess where Guy will be on Saturday?  Play sound basketball and you most likely will be correct.  Play the fool and ICC will end up just like Western Grove.

hooperfromwestside

Quote from: riccoar on March 07, 2018, 08:05:25 pm
I'll tell you this much.  I saw Guy play Concord and Concord could have won that game.  Came away knowing that Guy team was no where near the team they had last season.  Told myself, "no way Guy makes the finals in state."

Guess where Guy will be on Saturday?  Play sound basketball and you most likely will be correct.  Play the fool and ICC will end up just like Western Grove.
Well every team that loses could have "won that game" if they'd just hit 3s or rebounded or got the ball inside  more or something. But the thing is is that they didn't. They lost. So saying "they could have won that game" when they were down by 8-10 the whole 4th quarter is just bogus talk. Because IT DOESNT MATTER. Guy just keeps somehow winning these games on luck according to y'all. When y'all gonna give them some credit? I mean, they are state finalist

SackAttack

Quote from: hooperfromwestside on March 07, 2018, 09:33:15 pm
Well every team that loses could have "won that game" if they'd just hit 3s or rebounded or got the ball inside  more or something. But the thing is is that they didn't. They lost. So saying "they could have won that game" when they were down by 8-10 the whole 4th quarter is just bogus talk. Because IT DOESNT MATTER. Guy just keeps somehow winning these games on luck according to y'all. When y'all gonna give them some credit? I mean, they are state finalist
Finalists!! Please use proper English please! Stop sleeping in class and do your homework!

hooperfromwestside

Quote from: SackAttack on March 07, 2018, 09:44:08 pm
Finalists!! Please use proper English please! Stop sleeping in class and do your homework!
I'm a psychology major in college at uca. You're a construction worker or plumber.

hooperfromwestside

Quote from: SackAttack on March 07, 2018, 09:44:08 pm
Finalists!! Please use proper English please! Stop sleeping in class and do your homework!
I have a 3.8 gpa too. Scored a 30 on my act. Gtfo

Backboard Shattered

March 08, 2018, 04:29:58 am #45 Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 04:35:17 am by Backboard Shattered
Quote from: hooperfromwestside on March 07, 2018, 09:49:16 pm
I have a 3.8 gpa too. Scored a 30 on my act. Gtfo
I have a 8.3 gpa S.A.D.  Where did you graduate high school from?

bigballerbrand1200

Quote from: Backboard Shattered on March 08, 2018, 04:29:58 am
I have a 8.3 gpa S.A.D.  Where did you graduate high school from?
Arkansas deaf and blind. Lol

riccoar

Quote from: hooperfromwestside on March 07, 2018, 09:33:15 pm
Well every team that loses could have "won that game" if they'd just hit 3s or rebounded or got the ball inside  more or something. But the thing is is that they didn't. They lost. So saying "they could have won that game" when they were down by 8-10 the whole 4th quarter is just bogus talk. Because IT DOESNT MATTER. Guy just keeps somehow winning these games on luck according to y'all. When y'all gonna give them some credit? I mean, they are state finalist
Pretty sure I saw Concord, down by one late in the 4th, miss back to back 3 pt attempts that the first would have given them a 2 pt lead and the second up by 5.  Then Guy came down and hit a couple big shots that Concord had to start fouling.  My point was that THIS Guy team is not as strong as last years.  And your TWO recruits are not better than the home town kid Minton.  BUT, they still found a way.  Pretty sure that's a way of saying their pretty salty.

Sounds like you may need to lie down on a couch at home and talk yourself down.  Use a little of that psychology you got from that big city learning.

hooperfromwestside

I see where hooper is coming from. It seems most the time on here there is no credit given to guy for winning all these games. Just a bunch of game plans on how to beat them and trash talk about them. I wouldn't be surprised if icc's coach is on here right now taking notes on all the different ways to play guy.

SackAttack

Quote from: hooperfromwestside on March 08, 2018, 08:25:32 am
I see where hooper is coming from. It seems most the time on here there is no credit given to guy for winning all these games. Just a bunch of game plans on how to beat them and trash talk about them. I wouldn't be surprised if icc's coach is on here right now taking notes on all the different ways to play guy.
So now we have Hooper talking to himself!! Sigmund Freud would be proud! Should've been smarter !! Look at what you did here!!

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