HAIL TO THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS!!!

[bigchief72455]

Folks just need something to whine about. They need an excuse as to why Gurdon can't win the title. Those darn private schools.

Shiloh used to be that cats pajamas and they fell off. I bet LRCA has some down years in their future. What happened to CAC?

did you just say cats pajamas on a football board?

Yes I think they were referring that SC was the bee's knees.

[Beardad]

I most certainly did, was that offensive? Do cats not wear pajamas? Does the famed oldman not wear pajamas? Do you not like cats?

[Beardad]

Folks just need something to whine about. They need an excuse as to why Gurdon can't win the title. Those darn private schools.

Shiloh used to be that cats pajamas and they fell off. I bet LRCA has some down years in their future. What happened to CAC?

did you just say cats pajamas on a football board?

Yes I think they were referring that SC was the bee's knees.

This gif and the above image were both photographs taken of the Shiloh Christian football team in 2010

[Jimbo Morphis]

I most certainly did, was that offensive? Do cats not wear pajamas? Does the famed oldman not wear pajamas? Do you not like cats?

lol, I don't wear pajamas and I don't like cats.

[cdelaney]

I most certainly did, was that offensive? Do cats not wear pajamas? Does the famed oldman not wear pajamas? Do you not like cats?

lol, I don't wear pajamas and I don't like cats.

With you on cats, but TMI on pj's

[Beardad]

I most certainly did, was that offensive? Do cats not wear pajamas? Does the famed oldman not wear pajamas? Do you not like cats?

lol, I don't wear pajamas and I don't like cats.

With you on cats, but TMI on pj's

I'm with you on both counts....I guess it's my fault for asking oldman what he was wearing....I apologize forum for that one

[CoolBreeze]

This thread is highly irrelevant. Congrats HA. 

It's relevant to all the public schools that are at a competitive disadvantage.

Let the privates compete in their respective conferences during the regular season and then seed them and let them play for their own state championships while the public schools do the same. They could remain in their geographic conference and compete as an independent so that no school would lose that playing date and revenue. Wouldn't have to necessarily do it for Spring sports or Golf/Tennis/CC..etc. This would still allow the privates to have a full schedule of games.

This is the way it is done in Texas, not that they know anything about high school football.

Of course in Texas there are no true state champions. They have 3 "state champions" at each level, 2 UIL divsions and the one for private schools.

[CoolBreeze]

Ok what i meant was almost all other states dont allow it. Sorry i shouldn't have put all other states, but you can look it up that California ohio and georgia all are battle this and they have actually labeled it "pay to play" for private schools. I don't understand how you can sit there and say there isnt a advantage for private schools all you have to do is watch a game and there is a clear advantage on speed and size, also look at the coaches private schools have they can afford the best in the state where as a poor public school cannot.

Without statistics, your amended statement is as unproven as the original one. Unless someone compiles lists of the number of states who separate and those who do not, there is no reason to believe that more states separate the two. Citing a handful of examples proves only the a handful of states do it.

The allegation that private schools have an advantage in speed and size is ludicrous, at least in this class. HA is always undersized compared to many of the public schools they play, especially in the line. Moreover, in the past schools like Barton have had backs much faster than anyone at HA. This year, they may have been faster than Rivercrest, but they were neither bigger nor more powerful.

Finally, to say that private schools can afford to pay more to coaches is absurd. Many private schools are on very limited budget. They must pay for their extracurricular activities out of tuition, fees, and donations. Public schools get tax money, which families of kids in private school pay along with everyone else.

There may be exceptions to the above, but not in 3A. If you want to grumble about PA, do that on the 5A bulletin board, not here.

[OB11]

Teachers and coaches don't go to private schools for the pay, I can promise you that. 

[Beardad]

Ok what i meant was almost all other states dont allow it. Sorry i shouldn't have put all other states, but you can look it up that California ohio and georgia all are battle this and they have actually labeled it "pay to play" for private schools. I don't understand how you can sit there and say there isnt a advantage for private schools all you have to do is watch a game and there is a clear advantage on speed and size, also look at the coaches private schools have they can afford the best in the state where as a poor public school cannot.

Without statistics, your amended statement is as unproven as the original one. Unless someone compiles lists of the number of states who separate and those who do not, there is no reason to believe that more states separate the two. Citing a handful of examples proves only the a handful of states do it.

The allegation that private schools have an advantage in speed and size is ludicrous, at least in this class. HA is always undersized compared to many of the public schools they play, especially in the line. Moreover, in the past schools like Barton have had backs much faster than anyone at HA. This year, they may have been faster than Rivercrest, but they were neither bigger nor more powerful.

Finally, to say that private schools can afford to pay more to coaches is absurd. Many private schools are on very limited budget. They must pay for their extracurricular activities out of tuition, fees, and donations. Public schools get tax money, which families of kids in private school pay along with everyone else.

There may be exceptions to the above, but not in 3A. If you want to grumble about PA, do that on the 5A bulletin board, not here.

+1

[Jabali]

This thread is highly irrelevant. Congrats HA. 

It's relevant to all the public schools that are at a competitive disadvantage.

Let the privates compete in their respective conferences during the regular season and then seed them and let them play for their own state championships while the public schools do the same. They could remain in their geographic conference and compete as an independent so that no school would lose that playing date and revenue. Wouldn't have to necessarily do it for Spring sports or Golf/Tennis/CC..etc. This would still allow the privates to have a full schedule of games.

This is the way it is done in Texas, not that they know anything about high school football.

Of course in Texas there are no true state champions. They have 3 "state champions" at each level, 2 UIL divsions and the one for private schools.

Exactly! We should do the same and because our state is not as big as a small nation we could call still call our classification winner "State Champ"!!!

[cdelaney]

PA- yes
LRCA-?probably not-had a good year but have had bad ones
CAC- same as LRCA
AR Baptist-no
Harding- their athletes are not superior to most upper tier 3A schools
ECS- had 3 pretty good yrs in a row but all their stars were home grown- had been at the school for many years. They have made playoffs only about half of the time since the school started.

I have never seen anyone refute the points I have made about the advantages public schools have. You just say "it's obvious" but it really isn't.
And Texas has about 50 times more schools public and private than AR. Apples to oranges.

Less tuition, most everything in your above post is an advantage not a disadvantage for private schools.

I don't know which above post you are referring to, but there is no way that the disadvantages the privates have could be considered advantages: playing up one level; transfers having to sit out a year; having stricter grade and discipline rules.
The main potential advantage is that kids/families can choose to go to a private school regardless of where they live. In the Little Rock area this is not really an advantage because it seems kids can pretty much go whereever they want to- school choice,etc; and I know this is true in rural areas when there is another school relative close.
The only private school that routinely gets better athletes is PA- and that is because, in my opinion, they not only provide a good education, but they have a long-term track record of success in athletics, especially when compared to the dismal LR schools, that I am sure attracts kids and their parents who are interested in athletics.
Again, I am not sure about HA, but I suspect this is true there like it is at ECS- the typical student at ECS is much less likely to be a good athlete than at public schools; more likely to be a brainy nerd. As I said before, ECS has been fortunate to have a good run of athletes over the past few years, but these were all home grown kids. Hopefully the trend will continue.

[Jimbo Morphis]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

[cdelaney]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

You do get "brainy nerd" though don't you pajama boy?

[Jimbo Morphis]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

You do get "brainy nerd" though don't you pajama boy?

now that's funny

[Jabali]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

I actualy think that the only ones they are trying to convince are themselves.

[cdelaney]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

I actualy think that the only ones they are trying to convince are themselves.

Well it's not likely anything will change your mind. Like somebody said once- Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

[sevenof400]

Folks just need something to whine about. They need an excuse as to why Gurdon can't win the title. Those darn private schools.

Shiloh used to be that cats pajamas and they fell off. I bet LRCA has some down years in their future. What happened to CAC?

did you just say cats pajamas on a football board?

That might have been a Fearless Friday first.

[Jabali]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

I actualy think that the only ones they are trying to convince are themselves.

Well it's not likely anything will change your mind. Like somebody said once- Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Ha!  Sorry, I gonna pay a lot of attention to someone who is either full of beans or the sillyist person on earth to have crapped between a set of Barker Black Crown loafers.

[cdelaney]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

I actualy think that the only ones they are trying to convince are themselves.

Well it's not likely anything will change your mind. Like somebody said once- Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Ha!  Sorry, I gonna pay a lot of attention to someone who is either full of beans or the sillyist person on earth to have crapped between a set of Barker Black Crown loafers.

You're annoyed for sure

[Jabali]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

I actualy think that the only ones they are trying to convince are themselves.

Well it's not likely anything will change your mind. Like somebody said once- Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Ha!  Sorry, I gonna pay a lot of attention to someone who is either full of beans or the sillyist person on earth to have crapped between a set of Barker Black Crown loafers.

You're annoyed for sure

Not at all. Probably just seems that way because I am multitasking. I can't devote to much time to FF while on the road. (I drive a big rig from Oklahoma City to Menphis twice a week)

[cdelaney]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

I actualy think that the only ones they are trying to convince are themselves.

Well it's not likely anything will change your mind. Like somebody said once- Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Ha!  Sorry, I gonna pay a lot of attention to someone who is either full of beans or the sillyist person on earth to have crapped between a set of Barker Black Crown loafers.

You're annoyed for sure

Not at all. Probably just seems that way because I am multitasking. I can't devote to much time to FF while on the road. (I drive a big rig from Oklahoma City to Menphis twice a week)

Ok man- be careful out there!

[CoolBreeze]

This thread is highly irrelevant. Congrats HA. 

It's relevant to all the public schools that are at a competitive disadvantage.

Let the privates compete in their respective conferences during the regular season and then seed them and let them play for their own state championships while the public schools do the same. They could remain in their geographic conference and compete as an independent so that no school would lose that playing date and revenue. Wouldn't have to necessarily do it for Spring sports or Golf/Tennis/CC..etc. This would still allow the privates to have a full schedule of games.

This is the way it is done in Texas, not that they know anything about high school football.

Of course in Texas there are no true state champions. They have 3 "state champions" at each level, 2 UIL divsions and the one for private schools.

Exactly! We should do the same and because our state is not as big as a small nation we could call still call our classification winner "State Champ"!!!

So the story goes: Abraham Lincoln once asked the following question, "If you call the a dog's tail a leg how many legs would he have."

The other person answered, "Five."

Whereupon, Abe replied, "No, he would still have four. No matter what you call his tail, it's still not a  leg." [Or words to that effect.]

[CoolBreeze]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

It's not to confuse anyone. It's in the apparently vain hope that the advocates for kicking the handful of Arkansas private schools out of AAA will comprehend and respond to facts and logic.

Besides, it takes only a few words to make an outrageous assertion with no supporting evidence. It often takes many more to refute it with facts and logic.

[MDXPHD]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

It's not to confuse anyone. It's in the apparently vain hope that the advocates for kicking the handful of Arkansas private schools out of AAA will comprehend and respond to facts and logic.

Besides, it takes only a few words to make an outrageous assertion with no supporting evidence. It often takes many more to refute it with facts and logic.

There aren't many advocates for private schools, other than the ones that have kids there, of course. If you can't see that there are advantages to a private school, you are blind. There will be a split within the next ten years, I'm almost certain. I'm an advocate for the split, and I can use large words and facts like the prestigious private school posters.

[MDXPHD]

There has been a good debate going on about the private schools on the 5A board this season. If you want to read it, you are welcome to. But to deny any advantages is ludicrous.

[cdelaney]

There has been a good debate going on about the private schools on the 5A board this season. If you want to read it, you are welcome to. But to deny any advantages is ludicrous.

Ok, I will try to be brief here.
There are advantages for private schools, and I have stated them before: anyone who wants to can choose to attend, regardless of where they live; there is usually more continuity in their program- same systems for offense/defense all the way through Jr High and High School, and same group of kids more likely to stay in the program for many years; more stability at home? in general; fewer kids with major discipline problems; facilities MAY be better at some pvt schools (but not all)

Disadvantages: Playing up a classification; transfer rule- have to sit out a year- this is the most effective "anti-recruiting" rule there is- nobody wants to sit out a year, as opposed to public where kids move around with impunity; strict academic requirements- so even if you do want to choose to go to a school, you have to meet their academic requirements to get in, and you have to maintain them to stay in; stricter discipline in the school- more likely to get suspended from extra-curricular activities, or expelled, for disciplinary issues at school.

So I am not blind to the advantages, I just think they are more than leveled out by the disadvantages, at least at the 3A private schools. If you can't see the disadvantages the private schools have, then I guess you must be blind.

[MDXPHD]

There has been a good debate going on about the private schools on the 5A board this season. If you want to read it, you are welcome to. But to deny any advantages is ludicrous.

Ok, I will try to be brief here.
There are advantages for private schools, and I have stated them before: anyone who wants to can choose to attend, regardless of where they live; there is usually more continuity in their program- same systems for offense/defense all the way through Jr High and High School, and same group of kids more likely to stay in the program for many years; more stability at home? in general; fewer kids with major discipline problems; facilities MAY be better at some pvt schools (but not all)

Disadvantages: Playing up a classification; transfer rule- have to sit out a year- this is the most effective "anti-recruiting" rule there is- nobody wants to sit out a year, as opposed to public where kids move around with impunity; strict academic requirements- so even if you do want to choose to go to a school, you have to meet their academic requirements to get in, and you have to maintain them to stay in; stricter discipline in the school- more likely to get suspended from extra-curricular activities, or expelled, for disciplinary issues at school.

So I am not blind to the advantages, I just think they are more than leveled out by the disadvantages, at least at the 3A private schools. If you can't see the disadvantages the private schools have, then I guess you must be blind.

This is the same with school choice. Private or public schools, after a certain date, you must sit out a year unless your domicile changes to within the district. In fact, at private schools (and possibly public), a kid can move within 25 miles of it and be immediately eligible. One of the largest advantages is the lack of distractions away from home. Several public school kids in many areas in Arkansas suffer from poverty. Worrying if there will be dinner tonight is a pretty big burden.

Tell me, what disadvantage does the private school have? Discipline and academic standards? Those can hardly be seen as a disadvantage. I am glad you can see the advantages though, as many people can't see those. But to use a balancing test and say the advantages and disadvantages are equivalent is just not accurate. It's not even close.

[Longfellow]

Private schools are forced to play up a class

[MDXPHD]

Private schools are forced to play up a class

That's correct. I just read the rule. If enrollment is above 80. So, why are they forced to play up a class? The answer is obvious, but the critics can't admit it.

[freethrow]

No other state allows private schools to play with public schools its common sense they can recruit by just waiving the admission fee for a good player. Needs to be done away with.

MI, MS, OK, MO, GA, TN, FL, AL all play public/privates together

LA split for playoffs, TX split- privates often play public in non-conference

All I have checked. So far, "no other" seems to be losing 

[MDXPHD]

No other state allows private schools to play with public schools its common sense they can recruit by just waiving the admission fee for a good player. Needs to be done away with.

MI, MS, OK, MO, GA, TN all play public/privates together

LA split for playoffs, TX split- privates often play public in non-conference

All I have checked. So far, "no other" seems to be losing 

I believe Maryland is another state that separates the two in the post season.

TN does play together, but they have two divisions of private schools I think. The ones who offer financial aid to athletes are playing in a higher division than the ones who don't.

[MDXPHD]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/sports/football/high-school-football-inc.html?_r=0

https://www.imgacademy.com/sports/football

IMG in Florida has a slight advantage over public schools.

[freethrow]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/sports/football/high-school-football-inc.html?_r=0

https://www.imgacademy.com/sports/football

IMG in Florida has a slight advantage over public schools.

IMG played only two FL schools this year. IMG is an outlier, NA to the argument at hand.

BTW, FL does play public/privates together

[Jabali]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

It's not to confuse anyone. It's in the apparently vain hope that the advocates for kicking the handful of Arkansas private schools out of AAA will comprehend and respond to facts and logic.

Besides, it takes only a few words to make an outrageous assertion with no supporting evidence. It often takes many more to refute it with facts and logic.

http://www.harding.edu/assets/www/academy/academics/2015-16_student_handbook.pdf
Harding Academy should be playing 6-A ball at the very least. They still get to have God on their side, how can there be a bigger advantage than that? That coupled with their blind hatred of sexual immorality, scantly clad womenfolk (dresses 3" above knee), and dancing (dancing not condoned anywhere!) will make them nearly unstoppable in any classification! After one glance at the Pine Bluff Band, cheer squad and twirlers the Wildcats would smote the Zebras up one wall and down the other!

P.S. If it's not to much trouble, I would also like to know what Harding Academy's definition of "sexual immorality" is. (PM is fine)

[cdelaney]

There has been a good debate going on about the private schools on the 5A board this season. If you want to read it, you are welcome to. But to deny any advantages is ludicrous.

Ok, I will try to be brief here.
There are advantages for private schools, and I have stated them before: anyone who wants to can choose to attend, regardless of where they live; there is usually more continuity in their program- same systems for offense/defense all the way through Jr High and High School, and same group of kids more likely to stay in the program for many years; more stability at home? in general; fewer kids with major discipline problems; facilities MAY be better at some pvt schools (but not all)

Disadvantages: Playing up a classification; transfer rule- have to sit out a year- this is the most effective "anti-recruiting" rule there is- nobody wants to sit out a year, as opposed to public where kids move around with impunity; strict academic requirements- so even if you do want to choose to go to a school, you have to meet their academic requirements to get in, and you have to maintain them to stay in; stricter discipline in the school- more likely to get suspended from extra-curricular activities, or expelled, for disciplinary issues at school.

So I am not blind to the advantages, I just think they are more than leveled out by the disadvantages, at least at the 3A private schools. If you can't see the disadvantages the private schools have, then I guess you must be blind.

This is the same with school choice. Private or public schools, after a certain date, you must sit out a year unless your domicile changes to within the district. In fact, at private schools (and possibly public), a kid can move within 25 miles of it and be immediately eligible. One of the largest advantages is the lack of distractions away from home. Several public school kids in many areas in Arkansas suffer from poverty. Worrying if there will be dinner tonight is a pretty big burden.

Tell me, what disadvantage does the private school have? Discipline and academic standards? Those can hardly be seen as a disadvantage. I am glad you can see the advantages though, as many people can't see those. But to use a balancing test and say the advantages and disadvantages are equivalent is just not accurate. It's not even close.

Kids in public schools are moving back and forth between close schools without having to sit out a year; it happens all the time, and it is reported on FF without any hint of embarassment or questions about "recruiting"; and I am fine with that, I don't really care if a kid wants to follow his coach, or whatever. Just saying it does happen.
And you are misreading what I am saying about academic and discipline requirements-this is clearly an overall plus for private school, and is why many parents choose to send their kids there; but  this puts restrictions on the number of potential athletes at the schools, those who may want to be accepted but can't qualify, or it makes it more likely they will either leave or get kicked out once they are there; the public schools can't (or at least don't) have these rules or enforce them. As I have said before, if you have 60 kids per grade, and they are in a college prep curriculum, and the median ACT score is ~27, do you think you would have more or fewer good athletes in that group of 30 male students compared to public schools? Once again, you'd have to be blind....

PA is a different animal, but not because I think they are recruiting. They have a long track record of success, they have a great coaching staff, they have great facilities and resources, they have the continuity, and probably most importantly, they are sitting in a target rich area for good athletes when there is no real alternative (academically or athletically) in the public schools. The only thing that will change that is if the LR School system gets its act together and develops stronger schools over time, and provides support for the athletic departments. I would love to see that happen, but it won't be anytime soon.

And I am not sure what IMG has to do with anything, or for that matter, privates vs publics in states that are way bigger. If there were enough private schools in AR to divide them into a few classifications, separating them would make sense.

[CoolBreeze]

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

It's not to confuse anyone. It's in the apparently vain hope that the advocates for kicking the handful of Arkansas private schools out of AAA will comprehend and respond to facts and logic.

Besides, it takes only a few words to make an outrageous assertion with no supporting evidence. It often takes many more to refute it with facts and logic.

There aren't many advocates for private schools, other than the ones that have kids there, of course. If you can't see that there are advantages to a private school, you are blind. There will be a split within the next ten years, I'm almost certain. I'm an advocate for the split, and I can use large words and facts like the prestigious private school posters.

This post is typical of private school haters. It makes a bald assertion that private schools have advantages with no supporting evidence whatsoever and then makes a personal attack on anyone who does not see it his way. In this case that we must be blind.

I and others have refuted every charge that has been raised by these people, but it makes no difference. One poster has even listed all the disadvantages faced by private schools, which do have validity unlike those of the other side.

The only response has been to shout once again: "Unfair." And anyone who can't or won't see the unfairness of forcing public schools to play against such schools is blind or a moron or something. "Physician heal thyself."

Why do you object so strenuously to playing private schools? Are you afraid you can't beat them? Did someone from a private school kick your dog?

The fact of the matter is that private schools have won only 2or 3 3A football championships in the last 20 years. Charleston itself has won five in the last 10. That does not sound like an unfair advantage for private schools. What has happened regarding PA or other larger schools is irrelevant to this thread. Rail against PA on the 5a Bulletin Board.

[MDXPHD]

There has been a good debate going on about the private schools on the 5A board this season. If you want to read it, you are welcome to. But to deny any advantages is ludicrous.

Ok, I will try to be brief here.
There are advantages for private schools, and I have stated them before: anyone who wants to can choose to attend, regardless of where they live; there is usually more continuity in their program- same systems for offense/defense all the way through Jr High and High School, and same group of kids more likely to stay in the program for many years; more stability at home? in general; fewer kids with major discipline problems; facilities MAY be better at some pvt schools (but not all)

Disadvantages: Playing up a classification; transfer rule- have to sit out a year- this is the most effective "anti-recruiting" rule there is- nobody wants to sit out a year, as opposed to public where kids move around with impunity; strict academic requirements- so even if you do want to choose to go to a school, you have to meet their academic requirements to get in, and you have to maintain them to stay in; stricter discipline in the school- more likely to get suspended from extra-curricular activities, or expelled, for disciplinary issues at school.

So I am not blind to the advantages, I just think they are more than leveled out by the disadvantages, at least at the 3A private schools. If you can't see the disadvantages the private schools have, then I guess you must be blind.

This is the same with school choice. Private or public schools, after a certain date, you must sit out a year unless your domicile changes to within the district. In fact, at private schools (and possibly public), a kid can move within 25 miles of it and be immediately eligible. One of the largest advantages is the lack of distractions away from home. Several public school kids in many areas in Arkansas suffer from poverty. Worrying if there will be dinner tonight is a pretty big burden.

Tell me, what disadvantage does the private school have? Discipline and academic standards? Those can hardly be seen as a disadvantage. I am glad you can see the advantages though, as many people can't see those. But to use a balancing test and say the advantages and disadvantages are equivalent is just not accurate. It's not even close.

Kids in public schools are moving back and forth between close schools without having to sit out a year; it happens all the time, and it is reported on FF without any hint of embarassment or questions about "recruiting"; and I am fine with that, I don't really care if a kid wants to follow his coach, or whatever. Just saying it does happen.
And you are misreading what I am saying about academic and discipline requirements-this is clearly an overall plus for private school, and is why many parents choose to send their kids there; but  this puts restrictions on the number of potential athletes at the schools, those who may want to be accepted but can't qualify, or it makes it more likely they will either leave or get kicked out once they are there; the public schools can't (or at least don't) have these rules or enforce them. As I have said before, if you have 60 kids per grade, and they are in a college prep curriculum, and the median ACT score is ~27, do you think you would have more or fewer good athletes in that group of 30 male students compared to public schools? Once again, you'd have to be blind....

PA is a different animal, but not because I think they are recruiting. They have a long track record of success, they have a great coaching staff, they have great facilities and resources, they have the continuity, and probably most importantly, they are sitting in a target rich area for good athletes when there is no real alternative (academically or athletically) in the public schools. The only thing that will change that is if the LR School system gets its act together and develops stronger schools over time, and provides support for the athletic departments. I would love to see that happen, but it won't be anytime soon.

And I am not sure what IMG has to do with anything, or for that matter, privates vs publics in states that are way bigger. If there were enough private schools in AR to divide them into a few classifications, separating them would make sense.

I am not misinterpreting your statement. I actually do agree with you on most of it, but I don't think it balances out. I don't think the majority of privates have a huge advantage, it is just a select few. Harding and other smaller private schools in an area that isn't as populated as Little Rock or NW Arkansas lack some of those advantages, but they still have some of them. I wouldn't propose they be in their own class, but I don't think a success advancement system would hurt them. For instance, PA has won the last two in 5A, and under that system, they would move up to 6A next season.

IMG has nothing to do with this really, I just wanted to put that out there to make people aware of what some schools are doing these days lol. Maybe it was bad placement.

I have noticed posters from private schools use a lot more words in their replies to confuse those less fortunate posters from public schools.

It's not to confuse anyone. It's in the apparently vain hope that the advocates for kicking the handful of Arkansas private schools out of AAA will comprehend and respond to facts and logic.

Besides, it takes only a few words to make an outrageous assertion with no supporting evidence. It often takes many more to refute it with facts and logic.

There aren't many advocates for private schools, other than the ones that have kids there, of course. If you can't see that there are advantages to a private school, you are blind. There will be a split within the next ten years, I'm almost certain. I'm an advocate for the split, and I can use large words and facts like the prestigious private school posters.

This post is typical of private school haters. It makes a bald assertion that private schools have advantages with no supporting evidence whatsoever and then makes a personal attack on anyone who does not see it his way. In this case that we must be blind.

I and others have refuted every charge that has been raised by these people, but it makes no difference. One poster has even listed all the disadvantages faced by private schools, which do have validity unlike those of the other side.

The only response has been to shout once again: "Unfair." And anyone who can't or won't see the unfairness of forcing public schools to play against such schools is blind or a moron or something. "Physician heal thyself."

Why do you object so strenuously to playing private schools? Are you afraid you can't beat them? Did someone from a private school kick your dog?

The fact of the matter is that private schools have won only 2or 3 3A football championships in the last 20 years. Charleston itself has won five in the last 10. That does not sound like an unfair advantage for private schools. What has happened regarding PA or other larger schools is irrelevant to this thread. Rail against PA on the 5a Bulletin Board.

You don't know what you're talking about if you are referring to me. But carry on if it makes you feel better. Some can have an actual debate without starting to tear up and cry about it.

[ReddieKnightTrojan]

No other state allows private schools to play with public schools its common sense they can recruit by just waiving the admission fee for a good player. Needs to be done away with.

MI, MS, OK, MO, GA, TN all play public/privates together

LA split for playoffs, TX split- privates often play public in non-conference

Don't believe, man...we need facts!
All I have checked. So far, "no other" seems to be losing 

I believe Maryland is another state that separates the two in the post season.

TN does play together, but they have two divisions of private schools I think. The ones who offer financial aid to athletes are playing in a higher division than the ones who don't.

Don't believe and think...we need facts!

[adaptedtigerfan]

And in comes CD with another novel...  I knew I could count on u buddy!!

[MDXPHD]

No other state allows private schools to play with public schools its common sense they can recruit by just waiving the admission fee for a good player. Needs to be done away with.

MI, MS, OK, MO, GA, TN all play public/privates together

LA split for playoffs, TX split- privates often play public in non-conference

Don't believe, man...we need facts!
All I have checked. So far, "no other" seems to be losing 

I believe Maryland is another state that separates the two in the post season.

TN does play together, but they have two divisions of private schools I think. The ones who offer financial aid to athletes are playing in a higher division than the ones who don't.

Don't believe and think...we need facts!

I saw it online, who knows if it is a fact?! Lol

[MDXPHD]

So, here are some numbers for football since 2001 and soccer since 2007.

Football since 2001:

80 championship games in all the classifications. From 01-05, there were only four classifications. The current set up was implemented in 06.

Through the last 15 years, there has been at least one state champion in one of the classes all but three years (2013, 2007, 2005). Every other year, a private school has won the title in one of the classifications. In 2015 and 2008, two of the champions were private schools. Now, 12/15 is equal to 80 percent. 80 percent of those years, we have had a private school champion in at least one classification.

But, as pointed out by Red Devil in another thread, that is a deceiving percentage. Of those 80 championship games from 2001, 14 have been won by private schools, or roughly 17ish percent. So, actually, only 17 percent of the total games were won by a private school. The 17 percent of private school champions is only comprised by 4 schools: PA, CAC, Harding, and Shiloh.

Now, that doesn't seem right. 83 percent of the champions are public schools. That's a fact. But, there are many, many more public schools than private schools. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I would bet that there are fewer than 15 private schools that compete in football, and they are taking a state championship 17 percent of the time.


Soccer since 2007:

The current soccer set up happened in 2007, I believe. The private schools have dominated girls soccer, other than Harrison. The boys is a little different, simply because of 6A and DeQueen in the lower classifications. There are only 4 classifications in soccer. 4A and down, then 5A, 6A, and 7A.

Boys: There has been a private school champion in 7/9 years in at least one classification. 3 years there have been 2 private school champions. 7/9 is 78ish percent. But, let's go back to the argument made above: out of the 36 actual games being played, 10 were won by a private school. That's 27 percent. Again, there are only 4 private schools that are doing this in this sport. 4 private schools are winning 27 percent of the championship games.

Girls: Way worse in girls. All but 2014 has seen a private school champion in at least one classification. 6 of those years had 2 champions from private schools and 1 year had 3. Out of the 36 games, 15 have been private (42 percent). 6 private school teams have won the title. Now, here is where it gets interesting: take away 6 and 7A. In 5A, Harrison girls have won twice...the rest being won by a private school. 7 of the last 9 champions in 5A girls soccer have been won by a private school. Same in 4A (Gentry and VV won the last two).

I did not look through to see how many privates knocked out other privates that may have one that same year, but I do know it would have happened in soccer a few times.


So, to recap: In football, 80 championship games have been played since 01 and 17 percent of them have been won by a private school. In Boys soccer, 36 games since 07 and 27 percent have been won by a private school. In Girls soccer, 36 games have been played and 15 have been won by a private school, but in 5A and 4A, it is 14/18 in favor of the private schools.

[MDXPHD]

I am not throwing these numbers out to help prove a point that I have, but simply to show everyone in one place. I haven't had time to do basketball or other sports, but maybe somebody else can. My point is really this: Yes, we have all agreed that private schools have advantages over public schools in different ways. But, the advantage doesn't make them unstoppable (except for girls soccer, apparently). The sports leagues are more competitive with them mixed into the public schools. However, I do wish the state would go into a success advancement system. This means that the more successful your program is, you bump up another class.

Also, for the critics, there are several schools that would prove to be way more dominant than private schools in specific sports. Junction city and Greenwood have 6 titles since 01, Charleston has 5. Fayetteville and Bentonville make up 8 of the last 10 champions in 7A. ElDo has won 4/10 in 6A alone. So, if you think the private schools are dominating the state, they aren't. There are a some public schools that are way more dominant, even though its a select few.

Think of it this way: There are 4 private schools that have won 14 titles in football through 80 games. So let me take four of the most successful public schools: Greenwood/JC/Charleston/(any team with 4 titles). That is 21 state champions from these 4 schools, which equals 26 percent. That's 9 percent more than the 4 private schools.

[freethrow]

No other state allows private schools to play with public schools its common sense they can recruit by just waiving the admission fee for a good player. Needs to be done away with.

MI, MS, OK, MO, GA, TN, AL all play public/privates together

LA split for playoffs, TX split- privates often play public in non-conference

All I have checked. So far, "no other" seems to be losing 

Add AL to the public/private combined list
=================================================================

I believe Maryland is another state that separates the two in the post season.

TN does play together, but they have two divisions of private schools I think. The ones who offer financial aid to athletes are playing in a higher division than the ones who don't.

[cdelaney]

And in comes CD with another novel...  I knew I could count on u buddy!!

Thanks. But that was only a novella. Just wait for the Cliff Notes to save time.

[HorseFeathers]

And in comes CD with another novel...  I knew I could count on u buddy!!

Thanks. But that was only a novella. Just wait for the Cliff Notes to save time.

Public schools don't have the "advantage" of being able to read whole books, novels etc...

[Lineman]

And in comes CD with another novel...  I knew I could count on u buddy!!

Thanks. But that was only a novella. Just wait for the Cliff Notes to save time.

Public schools don't have the "advantage" of being able to read whole books, novels etc...

That's why I wait for the movie. In 3-D!!

[adaptedtigerfan]

Lol I knew I could count on the Lineman for a good laugh. 😂

[bleudog]

When a potential playoff bracket could consist of:

29 teams that have 3,000 people living within a 15-20 mile radius of campus,
  1 team that has 30,000 people living within a 15-20 mile radius of campus,
  1 team that has 60,000 people living within a 15-20 mile radius of campus,
  1 team that has 300,000 people living within a 15-20 mile radius of campus,

the POTENTIAL for abuse exists. 

[CoolBreeze]

When a potential playoff bracket could consist of:

29 teams that have 3,000 people living within a 15-20 mile radius of campus,
  1 team that has 30,000 people living within a 15-20 mile radius of campus,
  1 team that has 60,000 people living within a 15-20 mile radius of campus,
  1 team that has 300,000 people living within a 15-20 mile radius of campus,

the POTENTIAL for abuse exists.

But zero evidence that it has occurred.

By the way, there are only 2 private schools in 3A, who is the the public school in the above list with the potential for abuse.

Incidentally, neither ESC nor HA draws their students (and student-athletes) from the the population at large within a certain distance of their campuses, but from a smaller subset of those populations.

ECS draws its students from the lower number of potential students who can/are willing to meet its rigorous academic standards.

HA draws almost all its students from members of a particular conservative religious group. Those not a part of that group must be willing to adhere to their strict behavioral guidelines. That excludes much of the population cited in the quoted post.