3 worst officials in the history of basketball

[doubled]

Tripod I can tell you come from a time when integrity and honesty was what defined a person. Your comments should be read by all refs today.  Wish there were more like u in the business.

[sevenof400]

To add to Tripod's point, one major failing of AAA is a lack of any meaningful referee review, assessment and development program.  AAA should be actively involved in this (and many other) areas but instead it chooses to do nothing. 

[BoxNOne]

Tripod I can tell you come from a time when integrity and honesty was what defined a person. Your comments should be read by all refs today.  Wish there were more like u in the business.

There are also a few coaches this applies to as well.

[Moonshiner]

Tripod I can tell you come from a time when integrity and honesty was what defined a person. Your comments should be read by all refs today.  Wish there were more like u in the business.

There are also a few coaches this applies to as well.

I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

[StopTheMBHate]

You know, there have always been bad officials.  And as long as fans that do not understand the rules and how to apply them are allowed to sit up in the stands and critique there always will be. 

[Moonshiner]

You know, there have always been bad officials.  And as long as fans that do not understand the rules and how to apply them are allowed to sit up in the stands and critique there always will be.

Coaches get critiqued every game as well.  It comes with the territory.  There are good officials out there.  Those of us that do know the rules really appreciate the guys with good judgement, great mechanics, that work hard, and leave their egos at home.  These men have a responsibility to teach the new guys the tricks of the trade.

[chucktownboys]

The last game crew must be auditioning for the title, hand checking, raking repeatedly on drives is a foul any team will have problems against a quality team

[4real]

A big problem we have is the dwindling number of young folks getting into officiating.  Young folks today are softer than ever before. Not many that could handle tough coaching as players, and even fewer that can handle the tough chewing coaches give working the sideline.

There really needs to be stronger review programs for officials. Mainly for the purpose of development, just like teams reviewing film of themselves for learning game management.  We don't need to run folks off, but they do need help from good veterans.

[sevenof400]

A big problem we have is the dwindling number of young folks getting into officiating.  Young folks today are softer than ever before. Not many that could handle tough coaching as players, and even fewer that can handle the tough chewing coaches give working the sideline.

There really needs to be stronger review programs for officials. Mainly for the purpose of development, just like teams reviewing film of themselves for learning game management.  We don't need to run folks off, but they do need help from good veterans.

I agree with a lot of this -but- coaches chewing on officials simply isn't part of the game.  Three is a difference between a coach making a point and becoming an irritant.  Good coaches can make their point(s) known without turning four shades of red and stomping on the sideline. 

[Tripod1]

A big problem we have is the dwindling number of young folks getting into officiating.  Young folks today are softer than ever before. Not many that could handle tough coaching as players, and even fewer that can handle the tough chewing coaches give working the sideline.

There really needs to be stronger review programs for officials. Mainly for the purpose of development, just like teams reviewing film of themselves for learning game management.  We don't need to run folks off, but they do need help from good veterans.

I agree with a lot of this -but- coaches chewing on officials simply isn't part of the game.  Three is a difference between a coach making a point and becoming an irritant.  Good coaches can make their point(s) known without turning four shades of red and stomping on the sideline.

You are absolutely correct.  Mickey Johnson at FS Southside, Charles Ripley at Parkview, Coach Parrish at Ozark.  All great coaches and tough coaches.  When they asked me about a call I always said to myself I probably missed it because they NEVER stomped the sidelines chewing referees.  They had total respect from me because they did their job and allowed me to do mine.  Many many other coaches now retired and gone but those three come to mind for the gentlemen they were as to the respect they showed officials.

[Head Lion]

From our side of the state David Hixson(Blytheville) & Ronnie Brogdon(Highland) come to mind.

[Tripod1]

From our side of the state David Hixson(Blytheville) & Ronnie Brogdon(Highland) come to mind.

I agree as I had Hixson in the state tournament years ago when he was a young guy following Ebbs at Blytheville.  My list was just a few quick names.  Many, actually most coaches are great people to work for if you are professional enough to establish a line with them and be approachable and human with them.  I had some great times in many gyms and arena's in Arkansas and the southern part of the US.

[cmonblue]

To add to Tripod's point, one major failing of AAA is a lack of any meaningful referee review, assessment and development program.  AAA should be actively involved in this (and many other) areas but instead it chooses to do nothing.

I'm going to chime in here a bit.  I'm a baseball umpire and strive for excellence every single time I'm on the field.  I work a 10 year old game just like I work a high school or college game.  They are all equally important to me because my rep is on the line.  There isn't a lot the AAA can do and here's why.  Officials are not full time employees of the AAA.  What happens in most places is that officials, for any sport, are sometimes hard to find.  We're talking about men and women who do this as a 2nd job or because, like me, they have a passion for the sport.  It's not always easy to find officials to work games.  There are times in baseball that I've had to work games alone simply because there is a shortage of people.  It takes a special person to do this.  You will never get 100% of the calls right and there's a 100% chance somebody isn't going to like your call or no call.  I don't want this to sound bad but if you think you can do it please join us.  Bad officials are working, in most cases, simply because we can't find enough good ones.  Assignors can only assign the people they have available.  If we don't put a body on the court or the field the games can't be played.  Officiating is a constantly changing environment.  Rules change.  The problem is fans don't know the rules.  You're average person who played a sport in high school doesn't even begin to know the rules.  There is positioning and movement that goes on and not every thing that happens 2 feet from you is your call but people think it is.  The issue isn't as much the officials not knowing the rules as it is the fans thinking they know them.  As an official there is nothing more frustrating than that one person in the stands who thinks you got the rule wrong and blows up.  That makes everyone else think you're wrong.  Here's the best example ever of fans not knowing the rule.  In baseball:  A pitched ball that bounces on the ground then hits the batter in the foot.  The ruling is the batter gets first base because he was hit by the pitch.  What the crowd screams is that it's a dead ball because it hit the ground first and I'm an idiot because I gave the batter first base.  The crowd is wrong but from that moment on they all think I have no idea what I'm doing and they begin to have a meltdown on every call.  It's a matter of a very simple rule being applied and the fans not having a clue about the actual rule.  Like Tripod, I too have refused to work with officials simply because they are inflammatory.  They live for the ejection.  They want the arguments.  My point in all of this is that there are always going to be bad ones but I would be willing to bet even the bad ones know the rules better than most fans do.  We have to accept the fact that without the bad officials a lot of high school games would have to be canceled.  Please.  If you have that passion for the game contact your local high school coach and they can put you in touch with the right person for the sport you want to work.  We need all the help we can get.

[cdelaney]

To add to Tripod's point, one major failing of AAA is a lack of any meaningful referee review, assessment and development program.  AAA should be actively involved in this (and many other) areas but instead it chooses to do nothing.

I'm going to chime in here a bit.  I'm a baseball umpire and strive for excellence every single time I'm on the field.  I work a 10 year old game just like I work a high school or college game.  They are all equally important to me because my rep is on the line.  There isn't a lot the AAA can do and here's why.  Officials are not full time employees of the AAA.  What happens in most places is that officials, for any sport, are sometimes hard to find.  We're talking about men and women who do this as a 2nd job or because, like me, they have a passion for the sport.  It's not always easy to find officials to work games.  There are times in baseball that I've had to work games alone simply because there is a shortage of people.  It takes a special person to do this.  You will never get 100% of the calls right and there's a 100% chance somebody isn't going to like your call or no call.  I don't want this to sound bad but if you think you can do it please join us.  Bad officials are working, in most cases, simply because we can't find enough good ones.  Assignors can only assign the people they have available.  If we don't put a body on the court or the field the games can't be played.  Officiating is a constantly changing environment.  Rules change.  The problem is fans don't know the rules.  You're average person who played a sport in high school doesn't even begin to know the rules.  There is positioning and movement that goes on and not every thing that happens 2 feet from you is your call but people think it is.  The issue isn't as much the officials not knowing the rules as it is the fans thinking they know them.  As an official there is nothing more frustrating than that one person in the stands who thinks you got the rule wrong and blows up.  That makes everyone else think you're wrong.  Here's the best example ever of fans not knowing the rule.  In baseball:  A pitched ball that bounces on the ground then hits the batter in the foot.  The ruling is the batter gets first base because he was hit by the pitch.  What the crowd screams is that it's a dead ball because it hit the ground first and I'm an idiot because I gave the batter first base.  The crowd is wrong but from that moment on they all think I have no idea what I'm doing and they begin to have a meltdown on every call.  It's a matter of a very simple rule being applied and the fans not having a clue about the actual rule.  Like Tripod, I too have refused to work with officials simply because they are inflammatory.  They live for the ejection.  They want the arguments.  My point in all of this is that there are always going to be bad ones but I would be willing to bet even the bad ones know the rules better than most fans do.  We have to accept the fact that without the bad officials a lot of high school games would have to be canceled.  Please.  If you have that passion for the game contact your local high school coach and they can put you in touch with the right person for the sport you want to work.  We need all the help we can get.

Amen 100+ etc

[TheOfficial]

To add to Tripod's point, one major failing of AAA is a lack of any meaningful referee review, assessment and development program.  AAA should be actively involved in this (and many other) areas but instead it chooses to do nothing.

I'm going to chime in here a bit.  I'm a baseball umpire and strive for excellence every single time I'm on the field.  I work a 10 year old game just like I work a high school or college game.  They are all equally important to me because my rep is on the line.  There isn't a lot the AAA can do and here's why.  Officials are not full time employees of the AAA.  What happens in most places is that officials, for any sport, are sometimes hard to find.  We're talking about men and women who do this as a 2nd job or because, like me, they have a passion for the sport.  It's not always easy to find officials to work games.  There are times in baseball that I've had to work games alone simply because there is a shortage of people.  It takes a special person to do this.  You will never get 100% of the calls right and there's a 100% chance somebody isn't going to like your call or no call.  I don't want this to sound bad but if you think you can do it please join us.  Bad officials are working, in most cases, simply because we can't find enough good ones.  Assignors can only assign the people they have available.  If we don't put a body on the court or the field the games can't be played.  Officiating is a constantly changing environment.  Rules change.  The problem is fans don't know the rules.  You're average person who played a sport in high school doesn't even begin to know the rules.  There is positioning and movement that goes on and not every thing that happens 2 feet from you is your call but people think it is.  The issue isn't as much the officials not knowing the rules as it is the fans thinking they know them.  As an official there is nothing more frustrating than that one person in the stands who thinks you got the rule wrong and blows up.  That makes everyone else think you're wrong.  Here's the best example ever of fans not knowing the rule.  In baseball:  A pitched ball that bounces on the ground then hits the batter in the foot.  The ruling is the batter gets first base because he was hit by the pitch.  What the crowd screams is that it's a dead ball because it hit the ground first and I'm an idiot because I gave the batter first base.  The crowd is wrong but from that moment on they all think I have no idea what I'm doing and they begin to have a meltdown on every call.  It's a matter of a very simple rule being applied and the fans not having a clue about the actual rule.  Like Tripod, I too have refused to work with officials simply because they are inflammatory.  They live for the ejection.  They want the arguments.  My point in all of this is that there are always going to be bad ones but I would be willing to bet even the bad ones know the rules better than most fans do.  We have to accept the fact that without the bad officials a lot of high school games would have to be canceled.  Please.  If you have that passion for the game contact your local high school coach and they can put you in touch with the right person for the sport you want to work.  We need all the help we can get.

Amen 100+ etc

Thank you cmonblue.  Very well said. 

[StopTheMBHate]

To add to Tripod's point, one major failing of AAA is a lack of any meaningful referee review, assessment and development program.  AAA should be actively involved in this (and many other) areas but instead it chooses to do nothing.

I'm going to chime in here a bit.  I'm a baseball umpire and strive for excellence every single time I'm on the field.  I work a 10 year old game just like I work a high school or college game.  They are all equally important to me because my rep is on the line.  There isn't a lot the AAA can do and here's why.  Officials are not full time employees of the AAA.  What happens in most places is that officials, for any sport, are sometimes hard to find.  We're talking about men and women who do this as a 2nd job or because, like me, they have a passion for the sport.  It's not always easy to find officials to work games.  There are times in baseball that I've had to work games alone simply because there is a shortage of people.  It takes a special person to do this.  You will never get 100% of the calls right and there's a 100% chance somebody isn't going to like your call or no call.  I don't want this to sound bad but if you think you can do it please join us.  Bad officials are working, in most cases, simply because we can't find enough good ones.  Assignors can only assign the people they have available.  If we don't put a body on the court or the field the games can't be played.  Officiating is a constantly changing environment.  Rules change.  The problem is fans don't know the rules.  You're average person who played a sport in high school doesn't even begin to know the rules.  There is positioning and movement that goes on and not every thing that happens 2 feet from you is your call but people think it is.  The issue isn't as much the officials not knowing the rules as it is the fans thinking they know them.  As an official there is nothing more frustrating than that one person in the stands who thinks you got the rule wrong and blows up.  That makes everyone else think you're wrong.  Here's the best example ever of fans not knowing the rule.  In baseball:  A pitched ball that bounces on the ground then hits the batter in the foot.  The ruling is the batter gets first base because he was hit by the pitch.  What the crowd screams is that it's a dead ball because it hit the ground first and I'm an idiot because I gave the batter first base.  The crowd is wrong but from that moment on they all think I have no idea what I'm doing and they begin to have a meltdown on every call.  It's a matter of a very simple rule being applied and the fans not having a clue about the actual rule.  Like Tripod, I too have refused to work with officials simply because they are inflammatory.  They live for the ejection.  They want the arguments.  My point in all of this is that there are always going to be bad ones but I would be willing to bet even the bad ones know the rules better than most fans do.  We have to accept the fact that without the bad officials a lot of high school games would have to be canceled.  Please.  If you have that passion for the game contact your local high school coach and they can put you in touch with the right person for the sport you want to work.  We need all the help we can get.

Amen 100+ etc

Thank you cmonblue.  Very well said.

Agreed.  Thank you!

And (in my opinion) basketball fans and baseball fans are the worst for not knowing the actual rules, just what they have picked up watching commentators on television and listening to coaches.  I love coaches, however many, many coaches are not even close to being familiar with several rules nor their application. Let's not even begin to discuss high school radio play-by-play... oy vey!

We will not go into detail here on specific rules (although if asked I would be glad to discuss some), however the situations described by cmonblue are spot-on and do not even begin to approximate the countless number of rules that are unknown and/or misinterpreted.

What would be fun is instead of discussing the rules from the beginning as they are written, making a list of what the fans scream out during the games, letting everyone ponder on how ironic it is on how much they've heard that, then discussing why it is or is not called the way that they like. 

Great discussion.

[Buck Douff]

Mr. Stop, if your offer to discuss a rule/situation is still open, I would appreciate your insight on the following:

Team A, leading by two with single digit seconds left in the game, is inbounding the ball underneath Team B's basket after a score by Team B. Team A, of course, is trying to get the ball in the hands of their better free throw shooters, likewise, Team B is trying to deny those same players the ball.
The Team A player (not a good free throw shooter) manages to inbound the ball, runs the baseline out of bounds, then turns and runs the sideline past half-court NEVER stepping onto the playing court.

Question: Is this action, in and of itself, a violation ? Could an "off the ball" foul be called if this player had been  fouled while out of bounds ?

No call was made in the actual game; I was just wondering what the rule was.  Thanks.

[Rulesman]

From our side of the state David Hixson(Blytheville) & Ronnie Brogdon(Highland) come to mind.

Add Larry Bray at West Memphis to that list.

[StopTheMBHate]

Mr. Stop, if your offer to discuss a rule/situation is still open, I would appreciate your insight on the following:

Team A, leading by two with single digit seconds left in the game, is inbounding the ball underneath Team B's basket after a score by Team B. Team A, of course, is trying to get the ball in the hands of their better free throw shooters, likewise, Team B is trying to deny those same players the ball.
The Team A player (not a good free throw shooter) manages to inbound the ball, runs the baseline out of bounds, then turns and runs the sideline past half-court NEVER stepping onto the playing court.

Question: Is this action, in and of itself, a violation ? Could an "off the ball" foul be called if this player had been  fouled while out of bounds ?

No call was made in the actual game; I was just wondering what the rule was.  Thanks.

Buck, I apologize, I just now saw this. Are you referring to the County Line vs Scranton Boys Regional Final last season?

[dentist15]

I grew up around games and officials my whole life (My father coached in NWA for 25 years = Lavaca and Cedarville). A majority of the officials I knew around the area were solid, competent officials who knew the rules of the game, and did their best to officiate games as accurately and evenly as possible. The two biggest problems I see with officiating are:

(1) As mentioned previously, a vast majority of fans do not know the rules well enough to be officials or to even complain about officials. It's funny, and also quite sad, to sit in the stands at games and hear fans complaining about calls when said fans are completely incorrect in their assessment of the call.

(2) Though the majority I knew, and most likely the majority of current officials, are competent and doing the best job they can because they know and understand that the game is about the kids playing it, there are those few officials that feel it's still their time to shine, and like to show off their officiating skills by making ridiculous or ticky-tack calls at crucial times (which I find troubling, when the whole game these small things are not called. It may technically be a rule if you interpret it under a microscope, but it changes the flow of the game when officials let some things go throughout a game, and then in the closing minutes start calling them. Another part of good officiating is calling an even and consistent game too). I can still remember a particular official, that was only liked by Alma fans (always called a "good" game for Alma), that loved to step into the spotlight, with his slick-backed hair and smarmy face, and make some tick-tack call that hadn't been called all game, or even better, to stop the game and reverse an already correct call, which occured multiple possesions ago......(but that's just sour grapes talking lol)

[ReddieKnightTrojan]

who won?

[ballmember]

the very best coaches and officials are setting in the stands.  it is a tough game to officiate.  biggest problem i have with officials is that they have rabbit ears.   everything offends some of them.  unless being cussed i dont think you need to pay any attention to the fans, or even let them know that you hear them.  most fans only come to kids games and dont know a whole lot about the game, which they shouldnt, they are their for their kids.    percentage of good coaches has went way down, but most fans dont know a good one when they see them.   just what pertains to their child.   which is ok.    back when officials were x athletes or teaches they did not care what fans thought.   

[bluegrassboy75]

Mr. Stop, if your offer to discuss a rule/situation is still open, I would appreciate your insight on the following:

Team A, leading by two with single digit seconds left in the game, is inbounding the ball underneath Team B's basket after a score by Team B. Team A, of course, is trying to get the ball in the hands of their better free throw shooters, likewise, Team B is trying to deny those same players the ball.
The Team A player (not a good free throw shooter) manages to inbound the ball, runs the baseline out of bounds, then turns and runs the sideline past half-court NEVER stepping onto the playing court.

Question: Is this action, in and of itself, a violation ? Could an "off the ball" foul be called if this player had been  fouled while out of bounds ?

No call was made in the actual game; I was just wondering what the rule was.  Thanks.

I do not have a book in front of me so I'm trying to go off of memory.

It should have been called a Technical Foul on A1 for purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning inbounds after legally being out of bounds.  I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that is rule 10-3-2.

Again, I do not have a book in front of me at this time.

[BoxNOne]

the very best coaches and officials are setting in the stands.  it is a tough game to officiate.  biggest problem i have with officials is that they have rabbit ears.   everything offends some of them.  unless being cussed i dont think you need to pay any attention to the fans, or even let them know that you hear them.  most fans only come to kids games and dont know a whole lot about the game, which they shouldnt, they are their for their kids.    percentage of good coaches has went way down, but most fans dont know a good one when they see them.   just what pertains to their child.   which is ok.    back when officials were x athletes or teaches they did not care what fans thought.

The "rabbit ears" comment above is 100% correct here in NEA. This was not the case 20-25 years ago. As long as you weren't cursing them or becoming threatening, those refs acted like you weren't even there. The refs these days are way too touchy in my view. There are exceptions these days but not very many.